He Can't Code but His AI Agents Make Him $5K/Month Transcript, AI Summary & Key Points

00:00 In the last 30 days, I made $5,000.  How technical is your background? Do you know how to code? I don't know anything about  coding, nothing about tech, nothing at all. Like, I still could not write you a single line of  code. And I was able to quit my normal job and I already made 5 grand in my first month. My  life fully has changed. This is easily like a 50, 60K, 70K a year job.

00:18 And I have agents doing  this for me. I just tell them what to do. Man, my mind is blown right now cuz I'm thinking  of just like all these venture capitalists in Silicon Valley. They're not going to have  projects to give money to. No. Because what you're doing is something that a similar  startup in Silicon Valley would need to raise 1 to 7 million bucks for.

00:35 You would not  be profitable today. Period. End of story. If it weren't for these agents, right? 100%.  I could quit along the way, but I'm like, "No, I'm going to put my head down. I'm going  to make this work. I'm going to take the bet on myself and be a self motivator to actually be  successful." Dude, it's inspiring. I'm inspired, man. I'm 20 years older than you and like I  didn't know half of these tools existed.

00:53 My gosh, that's a huge find. What other tools are in your  tool belt that people have to use like yesterday? Lots of talk lately about OpenClaw, the new  AI agent that can, you know, run your life or whatever. But what if OpenClaw is already  outdated? Today, I'm talking to an 18-year-old that just viodated an app. He has no technical  experience whatsoever.

01:15 This app made $5,000 in the last 30 days. He just viodated it a couple months  ago. And it's a pretty complex app. It competes with a company that just raised $50 million. So,  we talked a little bit about how he built his app, you know, how to vibe code apps, but we also  talked a lot at the end about AI agents, what type of agent is better than OpenClaw, few  agentic tools out there that are changing the game.

01:41 He talks about what prompts we should use to  vibe code better apps, what tools we should use, and just super inspiring. I mean, 18 years old,  doesn't know how to code. Please enjoy. Veim, well, why don't you tell us who you are  and what you do? Hey, I'm Vadim and I'm the founder of Vugola, which is a clipping starter for  clippers and marketers and I'm scaling that to be the number one clipping tool by the end of 2026.

01:59 Okay, so talk to people about clipping like it's been around for a few years now. Why is clipping  important and what does it do? So for example, all the streamers you see all the podcasters  see clipping is only become more relevant in the future. That's why I started building my startup  primarily for clipping because like if you think about clipping, it's purely organic marketing  and it's a win-win for both your client and the Clippers.

02:22 If the Clippers get paid a dollar  per thousand views and then the client gets like 100 million views, it's a win-win. And in the  future, I firmly believe the the future is short form content. there only be more reels, more like  posts and clipping is going to be another like branch of this marketing where it's going to like  completely take over and especially like content rewards w like the things that they're doing and  like changing the industry in itself like that's going to be just the future.

02:45 So that's why how I  got into clipping. And clipping essentially just in broken down terms is if you're at a podcast,  live stream, whatever you are, if you so like if you post your own YouTube channel and then you  post your own shorts to your own YouTube channel, that's only five channels of reach you have.  But if you have Clippers, they make up like 50 sub accounts in your name, repurpose all  the like they clip like they bunch of clips to show content on all 50.

03:08 Now you have like 50  channels of eyeballs going all to you. So that's basically what clipping is. So, I think like the  big elephant in the room, the big question mark with clipping is how effective actually is it at  bringing short form viewers to long form viewers or listeners. I've done quite a bit of clipping.  I've had an agency. I've done on [ __ ] I've done it off.

03:29 I've got a bunch of accounts. I've got  my verdict. I'm curious what what you've seen. I know I know you're biased. I know you're in the  business of clipping, but have you seen any sort of like a a correlation or a conversion rate? like  how many short form views equal one long form view or what whatever. Yeah. So I can't really tell  you the exact metrics of clipping, but it all comes down to how you package clipping.

03:52 Obviously  like if you're a streamer, you just want more people to know who you are. For example, Clvicular  says he has like a thousand plus clippers. So his primarily like all of his clips are going to be  like him like quote unquote the mogging like trend or him like looks maxing whatever it is and that's  the kind of clips like that the streamer has.

04:04 But I think clipping, if you want to tailor, like you  want to get eyeballs from your short form content to your long form, it's really good for podcasters  because if they see your clip and they get value from the clip, like the clip is good quality, they  take something out of it on Instagram, on Tik Tok, on YouTube, on like YouTube shorts, they will go  find your channel, subscribe because they're going to want to see more of that content.

04:26 So clipping  like for podcasters is like pretty good. Let's say for a streamer and like I just want like you for  entertainment, not for value. That's like where the difference is because like it's it all comes  down to like are your clips like for entertainment or they like actually value driven and for  conversions. So that's like you have the streamers of the world and you have the podcasters of the  world and I would argue the podcasters have a higher conversion rate of people going and viewing  their podcast and

04:47 just think a streamer probably would. Yeah. Okay. Now I want to get into this app  that you built. Tell me tell me what you built and what inspired you to build it. Yeah. So it's a  clipping scheduling captioning to allin-one. And why I built this was before I started building any  startups at all, I wanted for us to take back like a step back and be like, okay, wasn't we relevant  in the next like six to like two years, like six months to two years because the one thing I see  in the startup community is people build

05:11 10 apps and they just like quote unquote throw crap on the  wall and just see whatever sticks. They don't like actually take time to diagnose, research, and  actually see like, hey, let me build one legit complex software that can just go scale. So I  I'm like, okay, Clip is going to be the future of marketing. Everybody's gonna be clippers. And  the one thing I I noticed that other clipping companies don't do is tailoring for agents  because the future is agentic systems, pipelines, workflows.

05:40 So I'm like, okay, what if I just  build out like a prototype MVP stage of like just a normal clipping tool, see if people actually  want it, and then based based on what people say, then I I'll start building out the agentic tool,  the scheduling, the captioning. So that's how I got into it. And now we have a couple hundred  paying users now. We've generated I think over like 10,000 plus clips and like so far the growth  has been pretty steady.

05:59 So what is your MR? What is your lifetime revenue? Let's talk numbers but  both like how long ago did you found it and what are your numbers today? Yeah, so in the last 30  days I made $5,000. So in the last 30 days I made 5K as like no coding experience, nothing at all.  I started building in October. I got into lovable. I don't know what I was doing.

06:25 I was like cursing  at the AI. I was telling it you're not building me the right page. You're not doing this. And like  only then I realized if AI gives you something bad, it's a skill issue cuz AI can only act on the  minor context and prompt engineering again. It's a skill issue with the user yourself. Yeah. So like  Exactly. Like I was like I was the most nubious vibe coder you probably like ever see.

06:43 Like I  like asked Lovable to build me something. Love like did not build what I wanted cuz obviously I  didn't tell it enough details and I would get mad at lovable. So like that's how I started my vlog  coding journey. It was unlovable. Then I moved to cloud code. It was like it's a pretty complex  software like taking clips, framing, cropping, sort like it was like complex software and I  like had so much times to quit but I started like so I when I got into cloud code everything  started working out like started

07:06 picking it up and the last probably like two months I actually  started marketing it organically on Twitter and it's purely off Twitter so far which is also like  a bad market for clipping like in my opinion like I could scale way better on Instagram, YouTube  shorts, Tik Tok which I started posting now but yeah purely on X in the last two months when I  actually started marketing it in like the like the free like uh the public beta stage, we made  $5,000 in the last like 30 days.

07:30 Now, is that 5,000 from like monthly subscriptions or lifetime  subscription? What do you charge? Yeah. So, I have three three paid tiers. So, first is like  a $9 plan and then it's a $39 plan and it's a $99 plan. So, for each monthly Yeah. monthly monthly  recurring revenue. I also figured out that the way I can like upsell like because like for if you're  having a a software business like if ideally your churn rate like a user will go to your software  and like if if you liked it or not they're going to leave

08:03 probably within the like the first two to  three months probably one to three months they're going to cancel the subscription leave your  software. Believe it or not just because you're watching this doesn't mean you're subscribed to my  channel. YouTube's going to show you stuff even if you're not subscribed to it. Over half of people  that watch my videos are not subscribed.

08:15 It would mean the world to me if you just hit subscribe.  Thank you so much. So the way I even maximize my revenue even more is when for example when I add  like a monthly and yearly plan and then on top of that let's say they have a month they chose  a monthly plan and when they click on the like get monthly plan a popup appears and sells them  a quarterly plan.

08:35 So you want to keep upselling them like better better deals maximizing how  much revenue you can take from your us from the like from the user because it from like one  to three months they're going to leave you and then after like they s they pick their plan then  you take them to a custom checkout page where you upsell them additional free credits now.

08:54 So like  it's like a onetime purchase for like a bunch of more credits. It's like a really good value deal  for the user. When I did that I like saw like my revenue kind of like just like like spike up on  one day. I think like one day I made like a like like 900 bucks just like in one day after I made  like the upselling perks and features and now and you're just pro promoting this on Twitter.

09:16 You  you're starting to do short form video but mostly just Twitter, right? Yeah, purely Twitter. Okay.  And how technical is your background? Like did you know how to code or is like vibe coding your  first coding experience? I don't know anything about coding, nothing about tech, nothing at  all. Like I kind of just learned along the way. I'm like basically like your grandma.

09:35 I'm not  even joking. I don't know anything about like coding. I'm basically your grandma that got into  like tech and I just over time I just like learned like and now I know like the the basics of it  probably but I still could not write you a single line of code. Why did you start with lovable and  would you recommend that people start with it? I know you have a more complex app.

09:52 Most people are  probably doing more simple things but what's your recommendation there? Honestly like looking back  now I would not recommend Lovable at all. First of like in my opinion it's too like too expensive  and also the designs and UI gives you is like it it looks like vi coded slop. So like in the AI  space like there's thing called like they can tell if your website is vi coded or if it's not.

10:12 It's called AI slop which just means like your website is like garbage and it's obviously made  by AI. And did like a horrible job on the designs. Way too expensive. Like I said like I spent like  $500 of the monthly credits in the span of 4 days. Maybe that's just a me problem, but I just  burned through so much credits. So like if you're if you're just beginning into VIP coding,  I would like the terminal looks very complex, but basically all you need to know is like you  need you need a backend server.

10:38 So like super base to like store all your data. You need  Versel to like for example you have a domain, you need to host the domain on the server. So you  need Versel for that. And then for your front end, that's like your front-end code. So you just  like open up cloud code in the terminal and you talk cloud code. It makes the local files for you.  You push it onto GitHub.

10:55 GitHub is literally like a Google drive for your code and it's basically  all you need to like build like build a startup a software. It just like those four things and it's  like it seems complex at first but like it's not really like it's pretty easy if you get into it.  So like you can skip all like the replets of the world, lovables of the world.

11:14 You can kind of like  skip all that and go straight into cloud code. Okay. So superbase for the database, Verscell for  the hosting, GitHub for hosting your code, the terminal app on your computer for actually making  the code. What is the AI tool that you're using to actually like vibe code it? Is it cloud code?  Yeah, I'm using cloud code and also for example like I'm using cloud code max subscription.

11:37 So I'm  paying 200 bucks a month. And also for you guys that do not know, I just realized this. So when  I first got cloud uh cloud code, if you buy it on the mobile app, it's 250 bucks. I don't know why,  but then if you buy it in the web app, it's 200 bucks. So, make sure to buy it on the web app. So,  yeah, I use cloud pro and also whenever my cloud code subscription runs out, I have a second codeex  plan.

11:56 Codeex is basically open AI's coding. Like how there's claude, there's cloud code for coding  and then there's open GBT and then there's codeex for coding. Yeah, it's 250 on mobile app because  they have to give like 20% to Apple. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot about that. Apple Apple takes a  chunk out of that. Have you been a clipper in the past? Like what got you into this world?

12:19 Yeah.  So, basically when I started doing this, like a bunch of people started reaching out to me from  like the clipping space, like well-known names, like like do you have clipping experience? Like  I never clipped. I was never a clipper. I never did I never did anything of that before I started  building software at all. I literally just like like researched.

12:36 I'm like, "Okay, I want like  I want to build the actual legit software that is going to be viable and can actually scale in  the future. The future is going to be short from concept. Future going to be clipping. Everybody's  going to need like that." So why not why not me instead of building a simple like walking app or  calorie tracking app or like some simple IO iOS apps what if I just build a legit complex like  almost like it's not an enterprise like software but like a legit software web application that  like I

12:58 can just scale and will actually be like viable and like it's going to be like relevant  in the future. So you saw clipping as a tidal wave and you said I'm going to hop on this tidal  wave. I'll have an easier chance of success. Yeah. Right. This is here to stay. Now what about opus?  Right. Like is that the biggest clipping app in the space? Mhm. Do you even like look at them or  are you just thinking like this market's so big not everyone's going to use it?

13:22 There's room for  everyone. How do you look at at them? Yeah. So the way I look at it obviously so I like I tested  out all my competitors first of all like before I started building my software I tested all my  competitors and I started like deep analyzing with myself and AI cuz like if you don't know your AI  can actually go and like do things. For example, I use a tool called Hermes agent.

13:40 Essentially, it's  open claw but on steroids. And there's a thing called Chrome Dev Tools MCP where it can literally  go and open tabs for you, take screenshots and analyze. So my Hermes agent, my my like you say  Jarvis. So my Hermes agent would go analyze, take screenshots, click through buttons while on  my MacBook Pro, I would also be researching and analyzing uh these competitors.

14:04 And one thing I  realized is first of all like they're like I re I also I went through like the customer reviews.  So like one thing is they're it's too expensive. The clipping process takes too long. Opus clip  also it clips the same clips at the same time. Like if you post a podcast opus clip since they  have a a good it's like a clipping logic. Like for example if you clip a minute and 5 seconds of  a video in one clip it can have that clip and then in clip two it can have the same clip.

14:30 It can  be like a minute five and it jumps to a minute 10 and a minute 20. I don't make it separate like  it reuses the same clip moments in multiple clips. So you're spending credits basically getting the  same exact clip. You're not going to repurpose that same clip over time because all these algos  look at your content and see if it's the same content.

14:47 They're not going to at all. So I like  I deep analyze all my competitors seeing like okay they're not a genensic all like the user  is saying XYZ I can improve in this this this way. So let me start building and if I can make  my product 10% better than theirs and heck like the market share is so big why can why can't I  not just take a piece of it as well you know?

15:07 So I had that mindset as well like you said. So  how long did it take you to go from, you know, your first prompt in lovable when you first had  this idea and you started building it to your first dollar in the bank account? First dollar in  my bank account. I think it was in the beginning of February. I think it was like February 2.  I got like my first like Stripe notification.

15:28 And by the way, like my product I did not market  it anywhere. I was just building in public on on Twitter and I saw like I saw someone bought like  the creator plan and mind you my product probably sucked back then like it probably was horrible but  someone still paid for it and used it you know so like I remember so yeah February 2nd I think  that's when I got my first like notification and first sale and when did you first start  prompting it in lovable first start prompting in lovable it was October November so you

15:52 spent like  a few months kind of tinkering with it learning the hard way and then first dollar in on February  2nd. Yeah. And then March, your first full month, you did 5,000 in revenue. Yep. 5,000 in revenue.  And how much of that was profit? 85 80% profit margins. That's amazing. Are you using AI credits  on the on the back end when they generate videos?

16:18 Is that part of your cost or no? Yeah. So, there's  a whole system with like the face analyzing, transcript analyzing, looking at the emotion of  the speakers, where they're at. like everything's basically on API credits and yeah I'm basically  outsourcing and like when I'm pricing my packages I'm making sure hey like if I package it in  this amount of price this amount of credits like ideally you want 70 to 80% profit margins in the  SAS world.

16:38 Yeah. And are you using claude API on the back end like for generating these videos? No,  I'm not using cloud. I'm using Gemini API. That's like that's the most effective because like Gemini  does a good job at reasoning and also Gemini also has a VLM which is is basically so you have LLM  it's a like a language learning model then you have VLMs which is a visual learning model.

17:02 So not  only can the AI like look at the transcription and analyze which parts of parts of the clips which  part of the video will be good clips but can also look at the video itself and dissect okay who's  the speaker where they at like what are they talking about? Oh, it's a podcast. Oh, this is a  Oh, this is like a stream. This is like a gaming thing and stuff like that.

17:22 Okay. Now, how have you  used OpenClaw throughout the process of building andor marketing this business? So, I started using  OpalClaw, I think a few months. Yeah, I think like two months ago, three months ago, I started using  Oplaw when it became viral. And the way I got my first like 400 like before I had like a free  plan, which like as a boost company, I was getting burned through credits cuz people were making  multiple free accounts.

17:41 But the way I got like my first 450 plus users, even though like a bunch  of them were free, but I got so much feedback from them was through Reddit marketing. So essentially  back when I used OpenClaw, I switched from it, but we'll get back into that later. My OpenClaw,  I made like a a marketing agent. Essentially, it would go on subreddits, it would go on LinkedIn,  it would go on X on Twitter, it would see where people were talking about what's the best clipping  tool, what's the best AI video tool, and I gave it a

18:08 bunch of these specific uh keywords tailored to  my SAS. So hey, look for like users complaining about clipping. look for users complaining about  Opus Clip because even Opus Clip back in the day they had like a 48 hour outage and in that moment  I told my market hey go like give me a list like bullet bullet bullet their usernames the post  where they're complaining so I can go and shoot them a DM hey I'm building a clipping tool I would  love for you to try for free so that's how I got my first 450 like free users on

18:32 my software and  got a bunch of feedback on things to improve on to remove simplify and stuff like that with open  claw so how many total users do you they have today both free and paid. I switched from there's  no free plan anymore. So just a paid plan. Okay. And right now we have like 267 paying users right  now. So you got you had a pretty easy time getting unpaid users with your OpenClaw agent just by  posting or commenting on Reddit, but then your paid users mostly came from X.

19:01 Is that right?  Yeah. Cuz one thing I noticed is like I was giving way too much free value on the free plan.  Like I was cuz not only is it's not clipping, it's also scheduling. Like you can like schedule,  it's like a whole social media scheduler as well. Unlike these like clipping tools, they focus  on clipping and stuff. Like you can clip and schedule natively all in one ecosystem.

19:19 So like  these people will lally make free accounts clip schedule and then they make another free account,  another free account, another free account. I'd get burned through a bunch of credits and like I'm  like, okay, the way the way I can filter this is let me just make a simple $9 a month instead of  the free plan. I'll do a $9 a month plan and that will filter just the people just to test it out  and the actual real users that actually want the product and want the software and and mind you  when I had the free

19:43 plan my revenue like I was not seeing any revenue at all like maybe just like  one sale in like like a couple weeks or something and then in March in March I think like the end of  February that's when I like I made okay I made the decision I'm not going to have any free plans I'm  going to make like the $9 plan like minimum and that's going to filter people and I'm actually  going to see if people actually want to use my software.

20:06 And right when I did the $9 month plan,  people just started buying it. I'm like, "Oh, wow." So, like, it was a good filter. Like, it was  a good move in the end of my day. Did you know you can build a six-figure business with only a 10,000  person email list? I just talked to the founder of Beehive, and he told me that there are people  with 10 to 15,000 subscribers making more than newsletters that are 10 times that size.

20:26 Here's  how. Well, this one designed newsletter with around 15,000 subs doesn't just sell ads. They  run two-week online cohorts four times a year that generate six figures. And on top of that, they're  charging companies 20 to $30,000 to get in front of their audience. And that's on one small focus  list. This is not about going viral anymore. It's about owning a niche and monetizing it correctly.

20:50 And Beehive gives you exactly the tools to do just that, like surveys to understand exactly who your  readers are, or a built-in recommendation network to grow automatically. Paid subscriptions,  digital products, sponsorship tools, and you keep 100% of the revenue. You don't need  a massive audience to run a successful business. You need the right system.

21:13 So move your email list  over today and try out Beehive with 30% off for 30 days with code chris30 because this might be the  simplest, highest leverage business that you can build right now. Just go to beehive.com/chris  to learn more. That's behiv.com/chris. Do you have any numbers as to what percentage  of people upgraded from freeto paid versus just bounced?

21:38 That's the one thing I had a mistake  on. So there's thing called post hog which is it can look at your whole entire website and like  your analytics and stuff. I did not have proper conversion and data set up from the beginning.  So I I can't really tell you like I can probably go in my Stripe and have my AI analyze all like  the Stripe IDs and the users and see which users upgrade from the starter plan to the creator plan  and then from maybe from the creator to the agency plan.

22:02 I could probably look at that right now.  From the beginning I didn't have that set up but I have it set up now. Now I set it up yesterday  with post like analytics but I didn't have proper like data like I didn't have onboarding I didn't  have offboarding like I didn't have any of that which like looking at this now from like a  marketer's perspective like what like what what was I doing you know I mean it's like that's  the alternative to not starting oftentimes people check all those boxes and then they all

22:25 that  friction causes them to never launch in the first place. So that's usually how I do it too.  Like I'm so anxious to get revenue in the door, I don't set up all the necessary tracking things.  But in the end, it doesn't really make that big of a difference. You know, like a year from now,  you're not going to care about that. Sure. It's all about learning process.

22:41 Yeah. But would you  say that you were surprised by what percentage of people actually upgraded to paid? Yeah, I  was actually really surprised because like my competitor skill, they're they have a free plan.  I'm like, why not just like why not me make a free plan? I'll see if if like people are going to go  to me and like no one was buying at all.

22:56 Like what the heck? So I'm like, "Okay, let me just make  a free plan and let's see if there's a demand, if like people actually want the tool, started  marketing it more, started talking about it more on Twitter, and people started funneling in. And  then I started getting more emails, more feedback, things that they like and didn't like, what to  improve on, what to add, and stuff like that."

23:16 Sorry, did you say that Opus did or didn't  have a free plan? They have a free plan. Yeah, that's interesting. I would have thought that they  that they didn't cuz clearly your data has showed that it's not a good idea. Yeah. The thing with  Opus, they raised $50 million. By the way, and like if you look at their ads, their marketing,  it just they're just burning money just to get big names like Mr.

23:34 Beast or I Shall Speed just to  use their products. If you look at their pages, it's just like well-known podcasters around  the world. So, I'm like, why not like I can like literally niche down and go after smaller  podcasters, entrepreneurs, affiliate marketers, whoever it might be that need clipping. I can  niche down and take a big like big chunk of the market share as well that way.

23:52 Have you thought  of building an OpenClaw agent that will go to [ __ ] and start DMing Clippers just like spamming  them links to your thing, giving them free credits or whatnot? No, I didn't think of that. But  what I did think is so uh Daniel Bit Bitsson, he's a founder of Content Rewards. He was like  a clipper back in the day, YouTube shorts guy, pretty successful young lad.

24:12 And he's like, "Yeah,  Daniel Bitsen, Bi T- O, and he's the founder of Con Rewards." And I have an idea and I messaged  them on uh Twitter and on messages. Essentially, I want to build out a genic clipper where like  the future of clipping is not going to be like human clippers. It's literally going to be  agent clippers clipping for you. Okay? Like think about it.

24:33 They can go take your video so  they can go analyze on WO what campaign it is, find that video on YouTube, copy the link, paste  it into Vola, clip it, they download the clips, they add the trending sounds that the B-rolls,  everything. And then they submit it on their like social media platforms because they can  schedule as well. And then the way clipping works, you take whatever you schedule on social media.

24:52 You take that like Instagram link, Tik Tok post link and then you just submit it on content  rewards. You submit it on W. And that's how they start tracking you for your views and giving  you like a CPM which they pay you like 10 cents, 30 cents or whatever, like a dollar per thousand  views. And like I thought about hey like why not like Conwords build out like a API key or like  why build out like a API key and just build it for agents.

25:15 So like I'm I'm in the talks with  them. So like we'll see where the future leads. But that's where I think where clipping will be  like fully agentic. Yeah. I'm thinking of these patterns like 20 years ago in the early to mid  2000s, you know, the smart thing to do was to build your business internet first, right? Like if  you're starting a business, it doesn't necessarily have to be an internet business, but it needs  to be optimized for the internet.

25:34 And then 5 years later, mobile became everything, right?  Facebook launched in ' 04 and then Instagram a few years later and then the iPhone in ' 07. And  so everyone was saying like your business has to be mobile first and Instagram was really unique  cuz it was the first social media app to be mobile first whereas Facebook was web first and then they  made an app later because there weren't even apps in ' 04.

25:59 So it was mobile first for a while and  now like 3 years ago it's like your business has to be AI first. Like AI like it can be a normal  business but you have to lead with AI. And now it feels like today in the next 5 years it needs to  be agentic first. And it seems like that's what you're doing. Like you're building the framework  for your business to be agentic first because eventually like agents are going to be buying  these apps and a human will record a podcast and then an agent will just pick it up and

26:25 take  it from there, right? Agents will be doing all kinds of tasks. They're going to have our credit  card info. They're going to go buy things for us because they know we need it. Like that's what the  future looks like and that's how businesses need to build their foundation to be agentic first.  100%. And like and if like if you're a viewer watching this podcast right now like if you're  building your startup or software whatever it might be start tailoring it and thinking okay how  can I build it out for agents

26:46 cuz literally the future is agentic workflows and like enterprise  companies literally like your agent is going to go download my agent skill like for example people  are saying a software is going to be dead because like cloud code can build you anything and  you don't need to buy any subscription. Well, no. If if I have an agent that knows clipping, but  then it sucks at scheduling, instead of building my own scheduling tool, why not like I just  outsource and grab a API key and get like this scheduling skill and

27:16 hook it up to my agent. So  now my agent can clip and then schedule. I love it. What are you building or playing around with  on OpenClaw today that people can learn from and and copy? Yeah. So I actually switched from  OpenClaw, spoiler alert. So I switched from openclaw to Hermes agent essentially. So open claw  is like the one thing about openclaw I had a big problem with I don't know if you experienced this  as well but the memory and like the self-learning loop on openclaw it was just not like I found  myself

27:43 repeating to openclaw time and time again that like hey you're forgetting this you're not  doing this it had contradicting memory and then a thing called hermes agent came out essentially  it's like opencloud it's a genensic tool where you plug in like cloud code or you plug in open  like codeex your subscription to it and it can do things with it and Hermes agent has like  40 like 40 plus built-in skills.

28:03 They have a built-in self-memory system. So on Opal Cloud, you  have to build out this memory system by yourself, which I had to do. But Hermes agent has everything  built in natively already within like within when you install it, it's already built in. So I  switched from open call to Hermes agent and so far it's been incredible. So like I have like a  a Hermes like CEO agent, I have a brain rot agent, I have a marketing agent, a growth agent, and a  specific coding agent all tailored for VGOLA.

28:28 So that's like basically the whole entire company  and team you could say behind Vola. Wow. If you were to hire a human to replace everything that  your agent is doing for you. Mhm. Would that be a full-time job? Would that be two humans? Three  part-time job? What do you think it would take? Oh my goodness. I don't even know. I'm spending  about like I don't know how much tokens worth of like cloud code tokens and codex tokens I'm  spending just on coding itself.

28:52 And then like I have a customer support agent literally setting  up post hawk like post hawk analytics viewing a bunch of metrics having chron jobs in real time.  Like this is easily like a 50 60k 70k a year job just for like one department of bugola like  moderating fulltime. And I have agents doing this for me all for like 200 bucks a month 400  bucks a month like everything for my own behalf.

29:19 And like I'm the CEO and I just tell them what to  do and they do it for me you know. Man, my mind is blown right now cuz I'm thinking of just like all  these venture capitalists in Silicon Valley. Like they're not going to have projects to give money  to. No. Because what you're doing is something that like a similar startup in Silicon Valley  would need to raise 1 to 7 million bucks for, right?

29:39 And hire that 50 to 100k person over and  over. Like two marketing people, an admin person, like you're spending hundreds of dollars a month  on agents doing the same thing. Like you would not be profitable today. Period. end of story if  it weren't for these agents, right? Because five grand a month ain't going to pay all those bills  100%. And the thing also like so if if you don't understand how Cloud Code works for if you're  a user, so essentially when you buy the $200 a month plan, they're giving you like $15,000

30:06 worth  of actual credits and tokens. And if I'm spending that all the time and then I go to Codeex and  another Codeex $200 plan, that's another like $15,000 worth of coding and like token usage and  credits. So essentially these like these companies because not everybody hits their usage limits and  weekly limits every single week. Only for me I'm maxing that thing out every day.

30:28 Like I kind of  have this like anxiety almost that if I don't maximize my my token usage every week every day  I'm losing money you know. So like if you're like if you're on cloud co if you're on CEX maximize  your output like you're supposed to be like hitting your limits every single week you know.  So, cuz like you're literally spending like 30 45 $50,000 worth of credits for like 400 600 bucks  a month.

30:50 Oh my gosh. All right. Hermes agent, that's a huge find. What other tools are in your  tool belt that people have to use? Like yesterday, I literally was researching with my Hermes agent  and like he literally like talked to me like, "Hey, you don't have any like analytics set up,  nothing. So like for your software, you want to set up like not sponsored, nothing like it's  called Post Hog.

31:10 It's actually really good. Essentially, Post Hog can literally go on your  software and it can see where users are clicking, how long they're on a page for, what they're  going to, like the whole entire user journey and then you can build out post hog called  events where essentially it's like your whole onboarding flow or for me like the first user  they sign up then it tracks for their first clip, their first download, their first post, the first  caption and literally tracks every single user's journey seeing okay

31:38 here they cancelled their  their subscription here they got more credits here they got this that XYZ and it's basically  like a whole entire like analytical tool that you can like fully deep dive and have your agent  just running for you. So like I got post I'm on a free plan also by the way I don't know how like I  don't know why I would need a paid plan.

31:55 How are they making money? That's what I'm saying. Like  maybe there's like a limit I'm going to reach or something. I don't know. I literally got a free  plan. Put the code like I just told my agent, hey like put this code embed it in my software. I  grabbed the API key, gave it to him like, "Okay, start setting all these analytic tracks." And the  thing with like if you don't know what to do for your software, the beauty of AI, it's supposed to  help you and brainstorm with you, you know?

32:18 So, like I couldn't come up with all like the post  hog events like it literally like went down like a step by step. Hey, you need to track this, you  need to track that, you need to track this, boom, boom, boom. And like I was brainstorming with  Hermes and then I'm like, "Okay, go go go build it out." And it started building it out for me. And  the thing with Hermes agent as well like I don't know if like I wish I could like I could share  my screen right now here but you can also see in like Telegram what it's

32:43 working on what tools  what MCP servers it's calling so you can track it whole entire like analyt like it whole journey  and it's coding thing as well in real time unlike for openclaw you would tell it hey do like build  me this thing and it would just like go quiet and then just spit spit something back out to you  couldn't really know what it was doing what it was working on maybe like it took the prompt the wrong  way or It's funny because it reminds me of like my hiring process.

33:09 The the key question that I ask  all my potential employees is how well do you work in ambiguity? And it sounds like OpenCloud does  not work great in ambiguity, right? It needs more handholding, whereas Hermes Hermes agent like it's  just accountable. It's it has autonomy. It just goes and does things. Mhm. Guys, I hate to break  it to you, but you're not very likely to actually start a business based on something you see or  hear on this podcast, unless you spend a little more time with me and with other people that

33:35 are  doing just that. So, come check out TK Owners. That's tkowners.com where hundreds of people are  launching, starting, testing, experimenting with business ideas that they heard from this podcast.  If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Check out tkowners.com.  We'd love to have you. And also another thing, so uh do you know what paperclipip is?

33:55 Have you  heard of the paperclipip? It's like a new AI, uh Google that built out. It's basically I  can't keep up, man. Twitter is something new every single day, but essentially there's a thing  I know there's a thing called paperclipip. It's a open- source GitHub project and essentially it's  a whole like AI orchestration structure for you. So essentially it's like you have a CEO agent  and then it can break down into like your CMO, your CTO and then those agents can have agent  agents and essentially like it's it's

34:22 literally a a gentic AI company. So like you can literally  hire a CEO, tell it, hey, hire me this kind of agent. You tell it your goals, you tell it your  to-do list, you make issues and essentially it literally works for you around the clock 24/7. And  the thing with uh paperclipip uh so the founder of paperclipip went on a podcast and talked about a  maximizer skill and in my Hermes agent you want to tell your agents if you're using Hermes open  call whatever it might be is you want to build it build it out so like

34:54 hey if I give you a task make  sure you go and fix it and do it no matter what cuz like if agents they have access to like click  on your web they can like with Chrome dev tools MCP servers they can go click on tools they take  screenshots they can like if you give it like your login password make like a dummy account. So, it  can log into Instagram, it can log into Tik Tok, it can log into Google, and like I built  out a native like custom skill where like, hey, if I give you a task, you work on it  no matter what,

35:18 you do not bug me at all until you like figure it out and you literally  self-improve. If you run into any work blocks, if you if you work if you go into like a unknown  arrow page, you yourself figure it out and only like tag me and like message me back if you only  need my help like 100%. And the thing with armies, it literally figures out and clicks on stuff.

35:39 It sends me screenshots proactively now because like I give it a task and it runs for me until it  literally finishes it. So if you have like agents, I would I would like advise you guys set that up  as well that like give them the access they need and just let them run and only ping you when that  task is actually done. I call it the let let them cook prompt.

35:58 Keep cooking. What other like killer  prompts like that would you suggest or or hacks or tools to get your agent and or LLM to run better  or more efficiently? So another good thing is like the term is called reverse prompting. Essentially  as like when you're setting up your open claw or for example now my Hermes agent you want it to ask  you questions back.

36:16 So, for example, like you long as you talk with it like you want to tell your  goals and also like be super specific with AI like if you're a vibe coder, you know coding expense  like me like like once I learn this like quote and like embed it into your whole entire workflow.  If AI gives you a wrong prompt, a wrong build, a wrong UI design, whatever, if the AI gives  you something that's not your expectation, it's a skill issue on you.

36:41 It's a you problem.  Like whether you like it or not, the AI can only do so much on what you tell it. like on context  and prompt engineering like think about AI like we like we might have a like I had a wrong impression  of AI that AI is so grand it knows everything about me like it doesn't know everything about me  if I didn't tell it stuff it's not going to go on the web and like search everything and like know  my personal goals my ambitious even if it did go on the web it it doesn't know your insecurities  your

37:06 thoughts your mind your history background a conversation you had offline like it doesn't know  any of that yeah and that's what I'm saying so like once I found this out like hey like be super  specific about the context for prompt engineering like for example if you look at like one like this  is a good like side note like if like if you go on a website and you like a designed website and you  want to implement it for your startup literally pull up a notes tab on the sidebar of your  computer and start writing like in

37:28 description not your AI but like for yourself and a dog like  I like this navbar I like this header I like this prompt and you want to take screenshots of it cuz  your AI can also like look at screenshots don't forget that like you want to make a huge note  prompt of like things you like take screenshots of the website give it to your agent and now  has so much more context rather saying, "Hey, I like the website of xyz.com.

37:51 Copy it." Like, you  have to be so much more specific in how you prompt engineer your your AI. Any other prompts or hacks  that you can think of like that? Ask your agent, hey, what tools and what API keys, what kind of  MCP servers, what do you what do you need so you can be fully autonomous? Because like for example,  like the I didn't know like ChromeDev tools MCP essentially like I'll I'll talk about this again.

38:16 I did not know anything about it and like every time I was asking my agent to go take screenshots  of XYZ web or this website whatever it couldn't and then I told okay how can we make you like do  it how what like what skills do you need what like go look on open says GitHub repos look on Twitter  go do whatever and then it told me okay there's a thing called Chrome Chrome dev tools MCP where I  can where you can allow it on your Mac mini your MacBook and I can go open tabs for you I can go  do this for you so tell

38:42 your agent Like to make it fully autonomous, tell your agent, hey, what  skills do you need? What API keys do you need so I can help you so we can improve our work like work  relationship and like our workflow? Yeah, I love that. Any other tools that you would recommend?  We've got Hermes Agent, we've got Post Hog, we've got Paperclip. Anything else that is just blowing  your mind lately?

39:03 Honestly, as of the moment, that's about it. Like I don't want to like over  like complicate everything. That's literally all you need to like build like a good like startup  business in today's world. And literally like I have no coding experience. I have nothing at all.  And I was able to quit like my like normal like high paying like a marketing job and like build  like a decent income for like just the first month of me building like fully marketing my software  and I already made five grand in my first month just

39:33 like that, you know? So like it's like it's  super like simple. It's simple work but it's not easy work if that makes sense. Like the time to  build a business it's still like it's simple but obviously success if success was easy everybody  would be successful obviously like there's like to be entrepreneur it's still hard and you just  have to go over these roadblocks like when I was building my software one little like last thing  like when I was building my software like I was running to Roblox like the the face

39:58 tracking the  cropping like everything was like super off cuz like a clipping software open raised 50 million to  build theirs and who am I to put my own you know and like I could have quit along the way, but  I'm like, "No, I'm going to put my head down. I'm going to make this work. I'm going to take the  bet on myself and be a self motivator to actually be successful."

40:16 And now looking back now having  like a legit like startup company under my belt, it's like a fully Tom's AI agents. Like my life  like fully has changed in the span of like four or five months. Dude, that's inspiring. I'm  inspired, man. I'm 20 years older than you and like I didn't know half of these tools existed.  You're inspiring a lot of people.

40:31 Last question I'll ask you. You obviously did a bunch of  research in finding this clipping opportunity. What tools or what methodologies, frameworks,  whatever can people use to find profitable, uncovered, undiscovered niches? Mhm. So,  essentially, you want to like take a step back and like really like for this like part, I  didn't use any AI. I didn't use like any uh like I literally just like I came up with this D by  myself.

41:00 Like like like you want to take a step back and actually look into the marketplace. Like  I don't care if it takes you like a week or maybe like two weeks. Like you actually want to do deep  research by yourself. Like you want to understand the market that you're going to go into. You  want to understand what your competitors are doing. You want to understand where the future  is headed.

41:18 Like in this podcast we're talking about how the future is agentic software agentic  workflows building skills and and and endpoints web hosts for other agents. And like now having  that kind of info, you can start thinking, okay, what can I build that every other company or every  like or maybe like one niche market will need. So like maybe like automate like automated leads, but  like take it like take that automated leads.

41:39 How can I make automated leads agentic? Okay, I can  build a agent that literally goes and has like a cron job. So itely runs every single day and it  can go find me leads on my own behalf. And then I take another step further. It can go message those  leads. and go follow up with those leads. So like you can think about a whole like a genic workflow  like you you connect one dot you think about it.

42:05 Oh, mind mapping. This is a huge. You want to go  and using mind mapping tools and like build one point. Okay, where does this lead to? Goes here.  Okay, it goes into here. And you want to mind map your whole entire research like your entire  research thing about whatever niche you want to go into. And that's basically all I I'll say like it  sounds cliche, but literally like you want to you want to be the expert in your own field.

42:25 Like I  know everything about clipping. I know where what my competitors doing, where they're lacking,  what what they're not doing. And like that's how I'm gonna take the edge on all these like  multi-million dollar companies and competitors on Vugola. So whatever you're building, you  want to be the expert in it and literally use your own creativity and mind mapping so you fully  understand your whole entire market.

42:42 This is the original Disney like master plan from like 60  70 years ago. Was this a mind map essentially? Yeah, essentially that that's like like the  thing about this mind map like I bet you when Walt Disney was doing this, he probably first  started with just like the maybe just the music or maybe just the TV like sector and he kept  building on to it over time.

43:02 Yeah. And he just like started building and strategizing those  mind. Okay, I should like this connects here, this connects here and like you strategize on  your own and research on your own behalf, you know? Yeah. Are there any mind mapping tools that  you would recommend? I think Miro Miro is a good one. That's probably the best one I would use. Oh,  I've heard of this one.

43:22 Yes, this looks familiar. Where can we find you? Where can we find your app  or you? Yeah. So, if you guys want to test my app, it's still in beta stage right now and we're like  I'm obviously like making and polishing it out, like working on non-stop. You can find bugai.com.  Basically, vuggai.com. And then where you can find me on on social media.

43:44 So, I have I'm mainly on  Twitter. I built up my personal brand on Twitter to like 27,000 followers and then I started  posting on Instagram. So you can find me at Vadem and then uh under underscore and then stru.  So s t r i z h e s. Okay, gotcha. We will link to you there. Well, Vim, this is amazing, inspiring.  Thank you for all your tools. Speaking of mind map, my mind is blown right now.

44:10 Um, thanks for  coming on, man. Thank you, Chris, for having me. All right, what' you think? Please share it with  a friend and we'll see you next time on the Kerner