This Kid Found the Fastest Way to Make Money With AI Apps Transcript, AI Summary & Key Points

225,000 in like nine months of building five  coding apps without any coding experience. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Quarter million dollars. My  goal is to hit a million in revenue before uh 20 before age 20. Yeah. And when do you turn 20?  Turn 20 next April. We did like 8K in the first week. And I was like, holy, this is insane. I  have a full business from software and I don't know anything about coding.

Yeah. My dream was 10K  a month at the time. I didn't think it was going to go anywhere. I just did it cuz I wanted to see  if it was possible. I also have a friend Zach from Cali. Oh, that's your friend? Yeah, he went to  my same high school. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He just sold it, right? Yeah. He just sold it  to My Fitness Pal. So, I saw him and I was like, "This guy's clearly on to something."

Yeah.  A big inspiration. 100%. And from there, that's when I was like, "Okay, I'm just going  to go like all in." These two latest apps were able to scale both to 10K in 45 days. What  did you do in December again? So, December, we did 30 and then January we did 40. So, we've  talked a very specific playbook here, but if someone wanted to go out and start their own app  like you've done, what advice would you give them?

So, I have like three different apps that are  generating revenue. The one that generated most of it, technically four, but the one that generated  almost like almost all of it up to this date has been uh Wrestle AI. And then, dude, I didn't even  know you were a wrestler. This is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And then the last two months has been uh  I haven't really talked about about them like publicly, but it's like uh they're like these  two other apps I've been like launching.

Okay. You can't just do one thing, huh? I can't either.  That's not a knock on you. So So no, the reason I did it was wrestling wrestling season ended and  so I have a full-time job. So the way I got the full-time job is I don't know how to code, right?  I build all these apps on Ror. On Roor? Yeah, Ror. It's like an AI app builder. Like Replet. Exactly.

Okay. It's like Replet except it does like Swift. Do you know what Swift is? For like mobile iPhone  apps. Yeah, it's like fully mobile. And I built my first app through them. Well, I built my first app  called Fight AI, which was like I just built it for myself and I like it was like a test app. Then  Wrestle was my first real thing. And from there, I was like posting about them for free just cuz  I was like this is insane.

Like I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing and like I have a full  business. Yeah. Uh from software and I don't know anything about coding. Yeah. and they reached out  to me and me and the founder we would like talk I would tell them work yeah I would like tell  him like stuff I wanted stuff we would just like talk about the platform and he invited  me to join the team for their growth team so I joined like December it was like yeah it was  only like it was like two months into wrestle AI less that like I then just

fully pivoted into  like full-time on Ror and like when I when I do something I wanted to go like I still had focus  on wrestle AI but thank god in those two months I was actually able to like create some systems so  I didn't have to like work on that much. I mean, it's a different game if you have a job. Like,  you have a responsibility to give them your 40 hours or whatever it is.

Of course, especially  cuz I was like a founding team member. It wasn't like it wasn't like I was joining like a rand it  was it wasn't a 9 to5 either. It was like whatever like when I woke up to when I went to sleep. Now  I'm actually probably leaving. Really? Yeah. which is cool cuz in the next like like the next stage  in life I'm hopefully I'll probably be leaving and then trying to focus on one big business to  scale up to like hopefully like my goal is to hit a million in revenue before uh 20.

Before age 20.  Yeah. And when do you turn 20? Turn 20 next April. The end of next April. What day? April 26th. Okay.  My son's the 30th. Oh, nice. Um Okay. So, let's back up. I want to get to all that, but yeah.  Sorry. No, it's all good. You're in high school in Long Island. Uh year ago, two years ago. Yeah.  Last year. Yeah. Okay. So, you were in high school wrestling.

Yeah. Varsity. Yeah. Were you good?  Yeah. I mean, I was a captain. Yeah. Okay. So, you're in high school. You're wrestling. What else  are you doing through high school? I was starting tons of different businesses. I've done like  everything. Let's list them off. Okay. Everything you can remember. Probably had like four four like  YouTube channels like growing up.

What types of channels? So, I remember I was when I was really  young, I was into comics. I had like a comics thing. I had like uh like a I think it was like we  were doing like pranks, me and my friends at one point. We were doing like trying to do everything.  Not faceless channels. You were like No, I was always in front of the camera. Okay. No, I had  one animation channel from this like and I can't draw.

It was like this like pre-made animation  thing. Okay. Where I would do like like stories and stuff like that. Yeah. This was all when I  was pretty young though. And then from there I tried ecom. So, I've done like two different e I  did like a laser pointer where I was just straight drop shipping. Okay. And then I did a supplement  company. This the supplement company was when I was a bit older.

It was right before I started  the first app. So, I started the app and like the first app and the supplement company around  the same time. Fight AI. Fight AI. Yeah. And they both made around 2K total. Like in a month. Within  a month. Dang. Okay. And you started them around the same time. Around the same like I started the  SM company first and I spent like tons of money on like inventory and all that.

And then I started  the fight AI was like fun. I didn't think it was going to go anywhere. I just did it because I  wanted to see if it was possible. Did you use Ror to build that? I Yeah, I used Ror to build it. And  sorry, what was the premise of fight AI? It was like wrestle where it's like you upload a video of  your your match or your training and it gives you a breakdown on how to get better.

Okay. It gives  like breakdown uh strengths, weaknesses, how to improve. For boxing specifically for for fight AI  was MMA. Okay. So, it was everything. So you take a they would take a video of them doing MMA shadow  boxing let's say or like shadow sparring whatever upload it and then your app would it's just a  rapper right not not no it's nothing demeaning I have a rapper rappers are awesome and it's just  saying like do this your form is this try this and what were you charging for it 10 bucks a month 60  for a year

okay and how did you even promote that so I just posted like like me and my friend who  was like who's like I'll help you I was like all right sure and he has got like an I for content.  Yeah. We just posted about it. Like just post a few dumb videos on just your friends. Your Yeah,  just on our Instagram. We didn't have like a ton of followers. No, we had nothing.

It was a new  Instagram account we made for Fight AI and we posted about it. Okay. And then we saw that like  people were like we got like 40,000 views, 30,000. Holy cow. On a brand new Instagram account. Yeah.  And like we're like, whoa. Like this is insane. And uh then it started fizzling out. And then from  there we made like 500 bucks. It was like 500 MR.

And then I was like looking at it and I was like,  "Dude, it's like it's like a car." Like I was like, "This is insane." Like it was like it blew  my mind. And the other supplement company I was running paid ads that were like losing me money.  Sure. There was like this there's zero margin. Yeah. Like what am I doing with this supplement?  Yeah. So that's what I immediately like throughout this I was like screw it.

Let's just focus on  this cuz I also have a friend Zach from Cali. Oh, that's your friend? Yeah. He went to my same high  school. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He just sold it, right? Yeah. He just sold it to My Fitness  Pal. Yeah. Okay. So, I saw him and I was like, "This guy's clearly on to something." Yeah. He was  your like a big inspiration. 100%. 100%.

Yeah. And from there, that's when I was like, "Okay, I'm  just going to go like all in on apps." Yeah. What was he like in high school? Like, would you  have seen him doing that? So, yeah. Like, we did know that like he was a smart guy 100%. But he's  like I don't know. I feel like he's human. You know what I mean? He's like a funny kid. He's like  one of your friends.

Yeah. He's one of my friends. Like clearly he's smart, but he's also just doing  dumb stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Like you didn't look at him like that kid's going to be a  billionaire. No, we kind of did. Okay. Like we did have that feeling, but he was also like super like  chill, like down to earth. Sure. And like Well, where did that feeling come from?

Cuz he he  was also always starting stuff. Okay. So he was always had a business. Yeah. And like that  was always the vibe. You know what I mean? Just like high energy. Just start anything you can.  Yeah. That's how I am. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, what type of supplement brand was it? What were  you saying? It was the neutropics. Okay. Where were you getting the ingredients for that?

So,  we sourced them all through like like whatever like different vendors and then we did like I  forgot what it was called. It was like contract manufacturing or something. Yeah. Where we gave  the ingredients to the person. Uhhuh. And they uh they as co-acking or something like that. I  forgot what it was. What was the form factor? Like a powder or It was a pill.

A pill. Yeah. Yeah.  He's selling pills. I know. No one died though, right? No, no, no. No, we did it all right. Like  the we had like a cgmp or whatever. Okay. And all our COAs and whatnot. What What gave you the  idea to do that? I just really loved like messing around with supplements back then. Yeah. So like  I was drinking like a bunch of energy drinks every day.

I still kind of am, but less. How many? Not  like crazy, but like three, probably two to three. What type? What are your drugs of choice? Ghost  Celsius. Okay. Well, this is those two. Yeah. This is my number one. The kiwi guava. That's my go-to.  Have you had the uh you had grape? Yeah, it's good. Really? The grape is my favorite. Really?  No, I like it.

It's probably like number three for me. Grape and peach. The fizzree one. Fizzree.  I can't I I can't even try that. Really? Like why would you not put fizz in an energy drink? It's  like green tea. I don't know. It's like something weird. I don't drink green tea. But have you had  the the sour ghost sour watermelon and sour green apple? Those are too sour.

I'm not like that crazy  about them. I love it. Really? I love that's like my number two. Mine are uh the peach ghost. Okay.  Those are like too sweet for me. Yeah. Um I think now it's starting to get to me. Like when I like  I don't know. I feel like I like peach flavor. Past few months it's been getting like ghosts have  been getting like too extreme.

Yeah. You're like I'm almost 20. It's Yeah. I'm getting old. Okay.  All right. So supplement brand. So you just you quit that. Yeah. We like you just abandoned it. We  just abandoned it. Yeah. Dude, all all the while you're learning how to vibe code. You're learning  paid ads, which like vibe coding and paid ads is literally all that's like the two best skills  a 19 to 99year-old could learn right now.

Would you disagree? No, I I think content and like how  to make good viralable content. Yeah. Yeah. No, I fully agree. The ability to vibe code and like  and then just being creative. That's like it, dude. And like it's not even accurate to say the  ability to vibe code cuz really what you're saying Anyone can do it. The ability to speak English or  German or what the ability to use a language you can vibe code.

Yeah. The idea is you just need to  conceptualize something like you just need to be able to think of something and like make it you  like I like things that are unique. Yeah. A lot of people with vibe coding like always recommend  like copying like other successful apps. Yeah. When it's like then you have to compete with those  successful apps and they've been doing it much longer than you.

But if you go into the like for  example the wrestling space, I had no competition. So, so I didn't need a perfect product. I  didn't need it like whatever. I just needed people. Okay. But Pam is smaller. Yeah. Hey, if  you're liking this video, please hit subscribe. You probably think you're subscribed cuz YouTube  shows you my videos, but you haven't done it yet.

I just know it. So, please check. Thank you.  Okay. So, Fight AI, what month and year is this when you did the Fight AI and the supplement?  Ex. So, it's actually exactly a year today, which is sick. You just graduated. So, yeah. So, f  your first summer. Yeah. Free. First first summer, college is coming. You're still in New York.  Yeah. I'm freaking out because you got all this time now.

Yeah. So, you're just like And I  was stressed. 600 milligrams of caffeine a day. Vibe code supplements. You're Why were you  stressed? Cuz college was starting and I was always telling myself like I was always like  full of myself. I was always telling myself I was going to figure out something before college.  Yeah. And college came and now I'm like starting my first semester in like late August.

What was  damn I I got no motion. Yeah. What was college? Where was that supposed to be? Uh St. John's. St.  John's. They have a basketball team, right? Yeah, they do. Pretty okay. And that's in New York.  Yeah, it's in New York. Long Island. Uh it's in Jamaica. Okay. Queens. Not not a It's an okay  school. I don't want to like hit on everyone. The end of the subway, right?

But uh yeah, it's like  I was like, yo, not I was not happy to be gone. Did you apply to other schools? I applied to a  few other schools. They gave me the most money and I never put that much of an effort on school,  which I regret. Like you I think everyone should regret it. I think everyone should like I don't  think you should just be like like have an ego.

You should put effort towards something. Yeah.  So I was like, "All right, they're giving me the most money. I'm just going there." Okay. What were  your What was your GPA in high school? I have no idea. I think it was like it was like I had like  a 85 average probably. The same same as me. I was like 3.3 something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But most  of that was just from cheating on my assignments for my friends.

I mean and I I could have done  it. Like I had the brain power but I was just lazy. here was just procrastinating. Yeah. Okay.  What all schools did you get into or applied to? I applied to Penn State and got rejected and  that's where most of my friends went. Okay. It's good wrestling school. Yeah. And I'm actually  so happy I got rejected though. Hindsight.

Yeah. I'm sure because like that's where all my friends  from my hometown went. Yeah. And I'm not like a big partyier. I like heavily like dissociate when  I go out sometimes. Yeah. And if I was constantly in that environment and I had nothing going for  me, I would have I would have like I would have lost it. You'd be in the you'd be in the frat  world.

You wouldn't be building stuff. Yeah. I would have had a lot of fun. You're having fun  doing this, too, right? Yeah. So, it's like fun is is subjective. All right. So, it was June or July  2025 when you were building these? July 2nd, we released the first app, Fight AI. Fight AI. Yeah.  Okay. And your supplement brand was a couple weeks old at this point or it it was like over probably  two months old.

Okay. Okay. So, you released FAI, you create a brand new Instagram account. So,  people started going to the app store and just searching Fight AI. Yeah. And they found it. I  bet your churn was crazy high. So, we did like 1,800 in the first month. We haven't marketed it  since. And it didn't mostly So, around the first 500 came from us posting. The rest came from us  sponsoring meme pages.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Still works. Yeah. It actually because we found one guy with  a cultic following. So like in the space? Yeah. This guy Tony has died. Absolute killer. Okay. How  many followers does he have? He now has 100,000. I don't remember when we first started working with  him probably 50. Okay. But anytime he would post a sponsorship his audience would get so angry at  him like he had just for like selling out.

He had this weird cultic following. So they would all  be like, "We're going to kill Tony Ste." They're starting like like death chants in the cult.  That's just like the culture of his following because he he made like he has like he posts  weird memes. So it formed this like sick culture, but it shot our engagement up. So we would post  like the first post we did with him.

In my mind, I was trying to make a post that didn't look like  an ad. And I was still new at this. So it looked extremely like an ad. It was an it was like a  kickboxer and it was this kickboxer cuz we were working with this other kickboxer. This kickboxer  uses AI to train for his next fight. Right. And it was like a Twitter headline on top of it. And then  everyone caught that it was an ad instantly.

Yeah. Right. And everyone's commented, but their hate  made it perform better as an ad. Exactly. Like shot it up. So that's where the other revenue  came. We made 1,800 in the first month. From there, we tried some other stuff, but it didn't  really work. We stopped like my like whatever. It was like it just wasn't like continuing to scale.  Mhm. So, we stopped focusing on it and then that's when I met my partner for Wrestle AI.

Like, he  was a wrestling influencer. So, from there, we stopped working on Wrestle AI entirely. We stopped  working on Fight AI entirely. Still to this day, Fight AI does over 1K a month just by itself. Just  by itself. Do you know what the churn is? Cuz like that could mean you churn everyone every month and  you replace them every month or it could mean no one new is joining and your turn is zero, right?

So, I'm guessing it's probably around like 30ish%. Okay. Per month. Month one. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And  then you like keep retaining them forward. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We do also have like organically  people coming. I I have no idea how it's still making this mo like money. Yeah. It's just like  you're not supporting it or we haven't touched it. Like literally, we haven't What model do you use  on the back end for that?

GPT. Which one? I think like four or something. Is that a good one for  like video for analyzing video? Yeah. Yeah. And it was it was like the latest one that when when like  we were making it. Yeah. Okay. Where did you find your wrestling influencer partner? So my first  like thing whenever I made any money was like I hired a VA. Mhm. Which I recommend everyone do.

VA. Where do you find them? I source them through e either Fiverr or Upwork. Okay. You just hop on a  call with them and you just like I just show them what I do which is literally like I cater my for  you page. So it's literally like just scroll on my for you page and outreach to everyone who has over  25,000 views on average. Hold on. outreach every Okay.

So, go to your for you page. Anyone that  averages 25,000 views on a video in your niche. Yeah. DM them and say and and then I gave them  like a DM script. So, it's paid promo for paid promo for the app. Sentence about what the app  does. Love the content. Would love to work with you. What are you paying back then? We were paying  like $2 CPM like for So, we really did this for Wrestleia.

Um that's where like influencers  blew up Wrestleia. It was only influencers. We never did paid and we were paying basically a  $2 CPM. We've increased it for some people since then cuz they're proven. Yeah. Cuz they've been  like been killers. Yeah. This one guy we actually pay over a $5 CPM and it converts that well. It  converts decent and then his videos as paid ads are like insane.

So taking him organic. Yeah.  He was the first one he was the first one that we ever did paid ads on. So he he he did a promo  video for your app. It did well. Then you pushed paid behind it and did even better. Yeah. Yeah.  Okay. We never pushed crazy paid for Russell, but he was like the only because we were optimizing  for installs. We didn't even know how to optimize for trials back then.

It was so bad. I was I was  learning as I went. But uh so so that's kind of the playbook is optimize for installs. No, I used  to say always optimize for purchase. I just didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to code. So  I was looking at this like black box and I was like I don't like I had like a developer from  Pakistan this guy Usama who also helped me out absolute goat.

Greatest guy ever. I don't think  he knew how to set up the optimized for purchases either or he did or he did and maybe I didn't  tell him right. So yeah it was literally just we only knew who was downloading the app. So since  since I didn't know how to fix that and I was like I started a job too. So I was like, I don't have  time to like figure this out, whatever.

I now I figured it out. Now I understand. It's actually  super simple enough being an idiot. But so we're just optimizing for installs. But if you want like  like to make your ads 10 times more profitable, you optimize for purchases. Okay. All right. So  let's back up. So you were accepted to St. John's. You're going to start in August. You don't want  to start in August.

You're stressed out because you put this artificial pressure on yourself to  be a billionaire before you have to start college, right? Whatever. Okay. Okay. So then you start  fight AI in early July. Do you ever start college? What happens after that? Yeah. Yeah, I started  college. So I So Fight AI started I my VA reached out to was reaching out to a bunch of people in  the niche.

We talked to a few different people. Then I see this guy, one of the people that  I reached out to is this guy Kaden Henshaw. Okay. Right. Kaden Henshaw is one of the biggest  wrestling creators. Right. He was my personal favorite wrestling creator like of all time.  Did you wrestle in college? Yeah. For who? Uh Parkside. Parkside. Yeah. Is that D2?

Wisconsin.  Yeah, it's D2. Okay. So, that just happened to be someone that the VA reached out to randomly.  So, no, actually, no, no, no, not even them. I'm sorry. I was messing up my own story. He reached  out to someone that knew him. Okay. Right. So, they it was a loose connection. And when I asked  the guy, I said, "Hey, I see that you're mutual with Kaden Henshaw."

Right. He goes, "I met him  once and like we exchanged." Yeah. And I go, "I'll look." So, he didn't know him. Not not  crazy. Well, yeah. And I go, I'll like pay you whatever if you just send this DM, right? He sent  the DM, right? He said like send the DM, which is basically like, I want to rebuild Fight AI but for  just wrestling because we had a ton of comments.

Is this like for wrestling? People didn't trust  it because we were everything, right? Yeah. So, does this dude just wrestling? He sent the DM  and I sent this guy like 17 emails and four DMs on everything. So, you're going all in on Kaden  Henshaw. I was going all in on everyone. Yeah. So they send the DM. Nothing really comes from it.  No, they send the DM and he goes, "I was meaning to answer this guy's email."

Oh, wow. And then  he answers my like oh like a few days go by. I don't see I don't see him respond to my email. I'm  like, "Hey, I need you to follow up." He was like, "All right, sure." Follows up. Kaden finally gets  back to my email. And now I'm like sitting there. I'm shaking, right? Because I'm like, "This is  like the first this is the closest thing I've gotten to like somewhat of like a big win."

My  like my dream was 10K a month at the time. Yeah. So, I sent him my phone number because like emails  like are the worst. Yeah. So, I send him my phone like the first email I send him my phone number  and I'm like, hey, my email gets like messed up. Can you just text me? And I'm like, ah, he's not  going to text me. He's too like whatever. He's too big time.

And then uh I get a text. Hey,  it's Kaden. And now I'm like freaking out like hop on the call. I show him by I go, look, this  is what my conversion rates are, right? Because we had like a decent onboarding. This is what my  conversion rates are. This is uh like what the app does. I want to rebuild it for just wrestling with  your audience plus like the app the funnels the funnel will be good.

Everything will be solid. Um  I want to do I want to do this with you. We'll be partners like 50/50. And people always like like  rag on me like oh like 50/50. And I'm like dude it doesn't exist with I was nothing without this guy  before this guy. Like I literally knew zero. Yeah. This guy gave me like a business to like learn  with and like test with.

So, so what'd he say? So, he goes, "Dude, this looks awesome. Like, I don't  know if I'm ready to like commit or whatever." He goes, "I don't know how this looks, but like  I'm very interested." And I go, "Hey," I go, "Let's not do any commitments." I go, "Let me just  build out the app. I'll show it to you next week." Like, I'll show you like something next week.

Let's hop on another call and then from there, we'll like decide where to go. Yeah. So, I spent  the next week prompting straight. Like literally didn't sleep. It was just prompting the whole  like the whole time because I was trying to make it perfect. Back then, the model it was like Sonic  3.5. It was like terrible. Yeah. You had to like it was evil.

Yeah. Yeah. I built out like this MVP  in a week. I showed it to him. He's like, "Well, this is insane." I go, "Now imagine like what's  what it's going to look like in a month." And then he goes, "Yeah, I'm in." So, we we did it.  Um then we had like some older guy like like we had a team of like these older people who were  trying to do something similar on web and they threatened to sue us, but they didn't sue us.

They were just a competitor. Yeah, they were a competitor who were trying to like stiff arm us  like whatever. Did they have any justification? They had nothing. Yeah. Uh and their platform  sucked and they kept they had a USA wrestling partnership. Oh, shoot. And they were bragging  about it on call. So, I had a college class that I missed because I was on call with them for two  hours and they were sitting there saying, "Oh, you're young.

You're this. You're that. Like, we  have a partnership with USA Wrestling." He goes, "I know you think you're going to like do well,  but like you're at an unfair advantage." And I'm sitting there and now I'm like I' I've been on  this call for two hours. They're not telling me any terms of their deals, though. Yeah. So, they  have a partnership. They could They could be their janitors.

That's their partnership, right? I  have a partnership with Google, aka I have a Gmail email app. Exactly. Like, we don't know  what that means. So, they're like they they're trying to get me to sign an NDA. I'm afraid if I  sign an NDA that and and then I release the app, they're going to say I stole their stuff, right?  So, I go, I'm not signing anything.

And I go, "Look, I appreciate the fact that you guys think  that you're passionate about your product and you think you have the unfair advant and their  product sucked and you think you have the unfair advantage." I go, "But to be honest," and  I I like I look at Kaden, I go, "Okay, like uh I think Kaden's one of the most influential people  in the space.

I think with just him, we could like take over the space." Yeah. And was on this call,  too. Yeah. Yeah. And I go and I fully believe in our product. And then I call Kaden afterwards. I  go, "Look, I don't want to work with these guys. They're being weird." So they were kind of talking  like, "Let's partner up." Maybe they're trying because they were trying to get a Kaden.

They were  mad that I got there first. Yeah. And I called Ken. I'm like, "Look, like I don't want to I don't  want to work with these guys." And he goes, "Yeah, I fully agree. I don't think they like represent  our like best interests." And that's when I realized I'm like, "Holy crap, I'm partnered with  this guy." Yeah. Yeah. And then we released and in the first week we did uh we did like 8K in the  first week and I was like, "Holy."

And then like that guy got like obliterated. He deconnected  the the website. Really? He owned wrestle.com. Yeah. He still does he still own it? I pulled the  plug on it. So if you go it's like 404 not found, but he still owns the domain. Still does own the  domain. Okay. We have wrestle.app, but our as like our SEO is all above his. What is your domain?

Wrestlei.app.app. Okay. So they just they never even got off the ground. So now you need to get  a partnership with USA Wrestling. Yeah, but USA Wrestling doesn't even like represent their  athletes that well from what I've heard. So I don't even know how like they're just legitimate,  right? Whether they do or don't like they're a big name. Um All right.

So what month does all this  go down? You start college in August. This was all September. So, end of September, September  26, we released the app. Okay. And I was working on it from like all through August and all  through like September, like non-stop. Yeah. So, I released Wrestle Wrestle Eye and I released  another app around two weeks later that I put like no effort in.

What app was that? This it  was this like it was like it was called Green. This app I hate I hate I had another partner. So,  another guy hit me up uh like this influencer I hit up and like they finally got back to me around  once I released Wrestle AI. I was like, "Okay, maybe the strategy just partner with influencers  and this guy had like a million followers."

So, I'm like, "All right, this guy's like in what  space?" In like this like reaction space. So, it was like joke. It was like SC like he like he'd  like react to videos and you'd make like a funny commentary on it. Super super low value audience  then. I didn't know what that meant. Yeah. At the time. So, I'm sitting there, we're making this  app, which it was going to be like, you know, have you ever heard of RZGPT?

Yes. It was going  to be like that. It was like a clone of that. And this is also why I pushed back against clones.  So, he had a super like low intent audience and we were making like a slop app to be honest.  Um, and we had no p like wrestle had super I was like super passionate about building because  like I wrestled so I wanted to build a tool that I really genuinely liked.

And it's a it's a it's an  enthused community. Like wrestlers are different. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I got to work  with people I love. Yeah. So, you launched this couple weeks after. How does that launch go? Yeah.  So, they both And this is like I I always try bringing this up because I feel like it's so such  an important lesson for like whoever is trying to like build apps and stuff like that.

Both apps got  a million views. So, like everyone like obsesses over distribution. Both apps got a million views  in its first month. When you say a million views, like the app itself in the app store got a million  views. No. Like total social media views. Like impressions across platforms or like a video that  you're using to promote the app. Yeah.

Tik Tok and Instagram, let's say, both got a over a million  views in the first month. Okay. Right. Wrestle AI the first month did 17K. Green did $35. Yeah. So,  like every every time someone's like distribution, distribution, distribution, you need to make  sure the the right people and what you're distributing is actually valuable. Like if you're  distributing something that no one cares about, no one's going to buy it no matter what.

Yeah.  Um, that blows my mind. That's what I always try saying because like I some people come to me with  these ideas and like Yeah. You have to like make sure it's like a good idea and you're passionate  about it. Don't try making another looks maxing app. There's been a million Looks maxing apps.  Right. Well, like I've had videos that, let's say, they get a million views and they're so high value  and high quality that I'll get 40,000 followers.

Yeah. From that one video. I'll have other videos  that get a million views where I'm kind of like trolling and I'm not as serious and I'll get  like 40 followers. Like 40,000 and 40 from the same amount of views. It's the same thing. It's  like is it high value enough? Is it the right audience? Yeah. It makes all the difference.  Yeah. And like creative strategy, too.

So, it's like like a dollar CPM could be expensive  and a $10 CPM could be cheap if you have the right creative strategy. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, after  that $35 launch, you're just like, "No." I was so happy because I was really afraid that this was  gonna make way more than wrestle. Yeah. I was like sitt I was afraid. I'm like I'm gonna be I'm gonna  be known as the Ridge GPT.

No, not even that. I just didn't want to be known as like the Ridge GBT  guy, right? I was like I'm going to be known as the guy who makes like like this slop, right? And  then I made no money. So I was like, "All right, we're done." Like we just I just instantly cut it.  I was like, "Let's I'm only focusing on WrestleI." Because I was I was also only mainly focusing on  Wrestling.

I was working on this like very little. Yeah. Then on Wrestle I month one, the last week  of month one, we did around like 2K in revenue. Okay. Which is was lower than all the others. 10K  first week it was like 8K first week. Okay. 8K, six, four, two, something like that. So it's like  it's going down a little bit. It had a huge up and then it's starting to fizzle.

Okay. And then  from there, that's when I sat there and was like, "All right." And then my my part like Kaden also  started getting a bit busy. He was doing RAF, right? Which is like completely fair. It's like  a like a wrestling organization. Okay. It's like, you know, it's like UFC for wrestling. Okay. It's  getting big now, too. It's sick. I haven't heard of that.

Have you you know Armen Zukian? No.  The UFC fighter? No. Oh, you know Kamzot? No. No. Follow UFC. So, like a bunch of UFC  fighters are going on there now. H. So, he kind of lost focus a little bit. Yeah. So, he's  he's like pursuing other ventures as well. Um, which like totally fair. I want you to do  something right now. Open your bank statement and add up every single software subscription  that you're paying for.

Your CRM, your email marketing tool, text message platform, calendar  booking app, funnel builder, review management, even a separate form builder or automation tool.  I've talked to business owners paying $500 to $3,000 a month across eight or 10 different tools  and half of them don't even talk to each other. So then they go pay for Zapier on top of that just  to make things connect.

Highle replaces all of it. CRM, email, SMS, funnels, websites, calendars,  automations, reputation management, invoicing, one login, one dashboard, one bill starting at 97  bucks a month. A guy in my community was paying 3.47 just for ClickFunnels, 99 for Mailchimp, 25  for Kellan, 79 for a review tool, and 49 bucks for Zapier just to glue it all together.

That's 600 a  month if you're not counting. He moved everything to high level and cut his software cost by  over 80%. But the best part isn't even the savings. It's that everything just works together  natively. A lead fills out a form on your funnel that creates a contact in your CRM which triggers  a text and email sequence, books an appointment on your calendar, and then asks for a review when  the job's done.

One workflow, zero duct tape, and then you can white label the whole platform  to resell it to other businesses as your own software. Charge them 2 to 500 bucks a month.  Check out gohighlevel.com/tkopod. They'll give you a 30-day free trial to see what I mean. How  many views did like that first launch video get? I think like 10 and something thousand and he posted  it to his account.

Yeah. Okay. And did you push paid behind that at all? No, we pushed no paid and  like up only until like January we started pushing paid. Okay. And what did you charge for this app  for rest? Same same price 10 a month 60 a year. Okay. Um we recently added abandoned yearly. So  like abandoned yearly. Uh like if you click like X it'll give you like a discount offer.

Okay. Okay.  What do most people choose between 10 bucks and 60? mostly 60 because you really we add the trial  on 60. So it's like look if you want the trial you have to do like you have to commit to the year  and is that the play you think for apps like this sometimes it's different for everyone right so  like my friend he just launched a new app and he's been only doing weeklies like his goal is to just  maximize the total amount of recurring revenue and that's working which I would always try to  frontload revenue

this way I had more for your growth yeah I had more money to then grow you know  what I mean so I was never bottlenecked by cash if you're not super growth aggressive ressive. I  would say push monthlies instead. Yeah. Um cuz your LTV will probably be higher on monthlies.  Okay. All right. So 17K, second month he's start doing other stuff. What do you do?

So that's  when I'm sitting there and I'm like, "All right, but like like I like we got to now figure out like  what to do." So like the most obvious was like, "All right, let's just get more people in the  wrestling space posting about Wrestle Ai." So from there I was like, "Hey, whoever you have,  like send them to me, right?" And then I would send DMs off of our brand account, paid promo for  WrestleI.

And another thing I didn't realize is because wrestling is a small niche and we had  Kaden posting about it, our response rate was insane, right? After Kuz because he's he puts a  like an legitimacy on. Exactly. Yeah. So So now you're reaching out to influencers that have  already heard of you. Exactly. Not just that, but from a trusted source. Yeah.

So it was great.  Yeah. And the first person I signed was this kid, Cory Zeter. another absolute killer. Shout out to  that kid. Okay. Our first deal, me and uh Corey, now he's made thousands of dollars. He's doing  well. But my first deal between me and him was it was six videos for 400 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. It was  six videos for 400 bucks. 70 bucks a post.

Okay. Right. He was like he was pretty new as well.  Um and Cali also sponsored him, right? What type of influencer is he? Wrestling influencer and he  posts like day in the life content. Okay. Right. Okay. So he he makes this first video, right?  So the first video costed us $70, right? Drops the first video. I watch the video. He doesn't  say wrestlei up until like 30 to 40 seconds in.

And he does a cali sponsorship before he does  sponsorship. Dude, right? And I'm looking at, oh my god, whatever. Like I'll tell him next time.  Like he can't do that this and that. The video crushed 500k views and we made over 5k off of it  because no one cared about the Cali sponsorship. All they saw was, "What do you mean this app  can analyze my wrestling?"

But for all we know, it did well for Cali, too. Yeah, maybe it  probably did well for Cali. Probably not the same, though. You could like we were able to tell by  the comments. Like, that's what I was like looking at. So, everyone was going insane. Like, what what  the hell? This app does this and that. So, now I'm like, I don't care if there's a Cali sponsorship  or not.

Like, I'm I'm riding high. I'm like, this is insane. I just paid 40 bucks to get 5,000.  Yeah. Yeah. Like, the the return was insane. and the bigger return. This is why I say even on your  first it's okay to be unprofitable on your first few influencers because they're going to start  spreading your word to other influencers. So we also because of him a ton of different people like  really respected Cory's content, right?

And we got even more brand trust. Mhm. And then from there  we started just sponsoring a bunch of different creators. Probably like a total of 10 maybe 10 20.  Okay. Around there. Then we cut down to like six, seven. Okay. Right. Um like in towards like  the end six or seven trusted great people like absolutely that you just use over and over. Yeah.

Okay. And yeah and from there that that's that was that drove most of all of our growth. How did  his other what six videos do? They all did great. Okay. So like we like as well. No, no, not as  well. Okay. That first video was a banger. But he got like 500k views. Yeah. But his RPM was great.  Yeah. which made it worth it. So 17,000 the first month.

What did months two, three, four plus look  like? So yeah, so Apple was holding all of it. So they Apple was holding 17K that we were going  to get paid out in December. Mhm. So all I had was like a,000 bucks in my bank account that I had  to sustain growth with in October. Yeah. I had to sustain growth with and uh like to make sure that  like we're not only relying on Kaden and like I just got super scrabby with this thousand bucks.

Constraints equal creativity. Yeah. And uh and then we were able to do we were able to do like  I think it was either like it was like 19 like a little bit 19 and a little bit the second month.  So it wasn't crazy growth. Thousand. Yeah. Yeah. Still. Yeah. We still were able to grow. You're  trending downwards at the end of the first turn it around.

We were able to turn it around. Get  to like 19. Yeah. And how did you do that? More caden videos, more other influencers. Other like  other influencers and Kaden. So that's your only growth playbook for the first few months. Yeah. It  was just organic influencer. Were you paying flat fee per video like you did with um some flat some  CPM? And what CPM did you start with?

Two two and 2.5. Okay. Now, when is that paid out though? Cuz  a video can keep going for a while, right? Yeah. That that's one like one thing that we did really  well. Yeah. We would pay him out. We'd be like, let's keep it simple. Like we'll pay you a week  after the video. But then it keeps going. So our C our effective CBM is sub a dollar. So,  an average deal would be like a video that gets 100,000 views, a week later you pay him 200  bucks.

Yeah. But then it might get over the next two months another 100,000. Exactly. Dropping your  CPM in half. Exactly. Are these pretty evergreen videos? Like like are they likely to keep going  for a while? Cuz some I post some shorts and like they're dead in a week. Yeah. Others and  they go for months. Some some would keep going, others would die out.

like we we wouldn't put  too much like thought into like making sure that all of the videos were evergreen. Yeah. Um were  you ever concerned about people like paying for fake views to boost their Yeah. But the idea was  we'd figure that out like so you could tell by like comment ratio. If somebody has like a bunch  of emojis in a com in the comment sections like there's like you know and like we were working  with wrestlers it was like trusted.

Yeah. They're not like marketers like they probably don't  really know that stuff. Yeah. And if we saw that like it wasn't driving enga like if we saw  the video wasn't really driving sales we would have just cut the influencer. But how were you  able to always attribute it to sales if you've got multiple videos going at once? A lot of it  was just intuition.

Okay. Being able to like just look at your charts and like kind of understand  like just keeping track of all the views and all the results. What tools do you use to keep track  of all those? So I just built out like this sick internal tool. Your own? Yeah. It tracks I run  my entire business on it. Really? my my metads, my creators, like literally dashboard contracts  are sent through it.

That's cool. Super easy. And then I have Claude like with Post Hog as well.  Post Hog. Yeah. And then like it's all all the data sources are in one. So I have like a Claude  that I could literally talk to like an MCP. Yeah. I'll be like like uh like Claude trained on all  these like data sources and then I'll be like, "Hey, what are like the numbers for today?

What's my P&L? Like what's this and that?" It's sick. Okay. So, you start doing CPM deals,  $2 to everyone. Second month is 19K, but you still don't have any money. Yes. Have no cash. 60-day  runway. Yeah. So, that was So, the second month was November. Third month's December. Okay. Now,  the first chunk just hit the account. Okay. So, now I'm like, okay, now it's time to like go  crazy.

Sorry. September was your first month. End of se September 26. So, basically October.  Okay. And then so 17K October, 19K November, December the money hits. What do you do with the  money and what are your sales in December? Yeah. So the money hits, we just 10x what we're doing.  Get more influencers. Now we got up to like around 20 influencers in December.

Okay. Right. 20-ish.  20 may be overkill. Um because there's just not the biggest bottleneck for us was finding like we  started running out. Yeah. We started running out of influencers. Yeah. That's my next question  was like how many are there? That that was like our big thing. Couple hundred. Yeah. Are you  reaching out to athletes, too? Like I'm gonna I'm I'm thinking like David Taylor.

Uh like Bo Nickel.  Yeah. D1. We have We have a video from Bo. Really? Yeah. We have a video from Bo. This guy we I  wanted I really wanted to work with Daniel Zabida. Zabita. We were in talks and then like I think  he just got busy like Okay. Stopped answering. I followed up a few times but we we never closed  the deal. Jax Forest also we were going to get deals with all these guys.

Yeah. I don't know  if he ever made the video for us because there's hundreds of current D1 wrestlers. Yeah. There's  thousands of like, you know, recent D1 wrestlers and then there's probably hundreds of like  wrestling influencers that weren't D1 wrestlers, right? That were good at content. Yeah. Cuz that's  the that's the difference. So, the ROI on like a a really good wrestler that's not that good at  content Yeah.

isn't really as big as the ROI on even though they have so much accolades. What's  stopping you from finding one of your influencers that's really good at content and then going to  like uh Roman Bravo Young or whatever like RBY that he's really great at. We tried getting him  a ton of someone that like maybe has a lot of followers because they're a big wrestling name  but are bad at content and saying like, "Hey, we're going to coach you how to do this.

Just  take a video like this, send us the raw file, we'll send you back the edited version and you  post it." You know what I'm saying? The thing that stops us is the fact that it's wrestling season.  wrestling season. The fact that wrestling season is our best season. It was when you were doing  this, you're saying like right now it's right now it's not, but now it is.

Yeah. December is  like maybe now would actually be the best bet to try that. Yeah. And then ask him if he'd hold  off like a few months. Yeah. Like just take a raw video that looks like this, you doing like  takedowns or whatever, and then we'll edit it, send it back, and you just post what we send you,  you know? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that that'd be the best strategy.

Well, I have a I was actually  thinking about something similar. I I want to hire one of our creators. Yeah. just upload it to um  but I haven't offered him yet. I'm going to send the offer probably late July. Okay. Cuz right  now we're like chilling cuz it's like we're out of season. Um you probably rather have a 50,000  follower influencer wrestling influencer that's really good at content than 500,000 follower  athlete that sucks at content, right?

But if you could have the best of both worlds, you could  have both, that would be great. Yeah, 100%. Okay, so December, what did you do in December again?  So December we did 30 and then uh January we did 40. So you kind of have what you have going for  you is it is wrestling season. Everyone's excited for NCAAs. Like it's the culture like people are  signing up more because it's wrestling season.

But you have working against you is athletes are  busy. Busy. Yeah. But I think it's it's still a net win. Like it's probably better to launch this  all else equal in September than any other time. Yeah. 100%. And so that was kind of lucky like  the timing just kind of worked out. Yeah. And that was that was like I mean it wasn't the plan  because I didn't meet Kayen until August.

But like I told Kaden like we got to make sure like  we're getting this for the peak like the wrestling season. Okay. So January 30k you said January  40. So 30 in December, 40 in January. Yeah. And this is like in January by the way January I was  first month in my full-time job. I worked maybe four hours on it. And this is like um we say  revenue but it's either monthly recurring or yearly recurring.

Yeah. Like it's so it's it's  it's recurring. Yeah. All right. 40 in January, which is wild. So you're October, November, you're  four months in, 40 grand. February is crunch time. That's that's like season's kind of ending. Yeah.  Um conference championships. Yeah. Yeah. And like the be like the wrestlers who are like quitters.  They're starting to quit.

Yeah. But we still had a great month. We still When you say quitters,  you mean like mostly high school wrestlers? Is that like the biggest Cuz there's a zillion more  high school wrestlers in college. Yeah. Yeah, high school's our biggest. Okay, so therefore,  and Peewee like shock we had we had a lot of like little kids hit us up. So in February you have  two things happening that are going against you.

A wrestlers are quitting probably for good and  B the seasons are just ending. These high school seasons are ending at the end of February, give  or take. So what were your sales in February? Uh it was still like 30ish. Okay. It was like 28 and  it's a shorter month. Um yeah, it was like 28 and and like it was that was pretty much it. Like it  wasn't bad.

And we were still very profitable like cuz I think like our total like our expenses  are very low. How are you managing this 50/50 partnership and expenses like are you making a  cash distribution every month? Yes. To each other. We started taking out in uh like Decemberish. In  the beginning I told him like I want to scale this as much as I never want to scale this because we  want to take money.

You know what I mean? And he was kind of on board but it came to a point where  we just weren't able to spend the money. So every month I would send out the distributions. But  the distributions are coming after you're paying expenses, paying the influencers. Okay. Token cost  was that very high. No, our most expensive month was January was 2K. And what model were you using  or are you using for this?

I don't even remember. It's it's the like it was the best OpenAI model  still. 40 GPT 40. I think this may have been five. I'm not sure. Okay. I'm kind of surprised that  the tokens aren't higher. Is it just because the usage isn't that much? Yeah. So, what we did,  what we found out is the analysis feature gets them in the door, but you can only really use the  analysis feature like five times.

And analysis being they take a video and upload it. Yeah.  Uploading the wrestling match. Okay. That's like our viral feature, right? But after you do that  five times, it's like, okay, you're running out of matches and you're starting to get like like  you you usually you do the same problems multiple times. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So like  you have a firm grasp head up.

Yeah, exactly. You have a firm grasp of of what the issues are.  What we did to combat that and we saw once we started adding this stuff like our turn went from  like like this to like this. Adding what? Calorie tracker feature to make sure like wrestlers  are really like some sticky. Yeah. Heavy. We were heavy on weight management stuff. Okay. And  was the calorie tracker similar to Cali and they just take a picture and upload.

Yeah. We had like  all the options to track calories like same as my fitness bell. Okay. barcode database everything  hard to implement like tedious hard we did just APIs you're just plugging into database of food  exactly we're just using image recognition yeah okay so the calorie tracker was big and uh calorie  tracker weight mode you'd upload your wrestling calendar so you'd upload your match schedule and  it would parse it into the app's calendar and then it would keep track of your weight so it' be  like hey you

got to be you gota make sure you're cutting hey it's Tuesday like yeah exactly you got  match Wednesday Yeah, we also added like stance in motion mode where it call out for you and like  do your call outs like the app would tell you to do stuff shots brawl circle. Yeah, that's cool.  People like that. Yeah, people people liked it cuz like if you don't have your coach, you're you're  trying to like drill alone.

You want like your kind of like stance in motion mode. It gives you  like round times and stuff like that. Okay. And then uh we also had a practice mode which would  teach you a move and then you would do the move and then it would analyze you doing the move. M I  feel like that one was never as big. I I feel like we could have made it better. Kind of gimmicky  like Yeah, we we just didn't So it was it was all voice and voice and text.

So we couldn't really  We didn't have videos. Okay. Yeah, we should have had videos. Yeah. For the analyze feature, the one  that you started with, is it really telling them unique stuff or is it saying like stop reaching  back like you know what I'm saying? So yeah, I tell people it's it's mostly um like the biggest  thing is fundamentals. So it just evaluates it based on like most of the stuff that like like the  fundamentals of what you're doing.

Yeah. Like you shot in for this double leg but your head was  down. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. It's not saying like it's not getting like super granular like when  when Kale does an arm bar he you know like it'll do that sometimes. So it'll catch some weird stuff  and it's like you could have rolled through. Yeah. It could have you could have rolled through.

You  could have done this and that. Okay. But like the mo the biggest thing I wanted to make sure I got  down was the fundamentals because at that's why that's why I was able to like start beating  my friends because I got really good at the fundamentals. Well, that's the most broad. Yeah.  Like if you're getting really technical then it goes over the head of 90% of wrestling.

Exactly.  All right. So February hits, revenue drops. March is like that's crunch time. Like what happens in  March? March we're still doing okay. It's it was about uh it was like March was like 20 um April  was like 15. Okay. Now we're stagnating at around like 10. Uhhuh. But that's our floor. Did you  see that's all monthly like shoot up in February, March, April when the season ends.

I thought we  were going to Not really. It was just we stopped getting that as many new yearlies. Okay. That's  what caused the revenue to decline. Yeah. Yeah. But it it did like don't get me wrong. Yeah.  increased, but it wasn't like I was expecting February first hits. Yeah. Zero subs. That's what  was in my mind. I'm like, "All right, like that's it is what it is."

Like I knew that this was going  to happen. I like braced myself for it. Yeah. The churn kind of went like that and then it kind of  just stayed the same. Okay. But our new we just started getting less new year yearlys and most of  our revenue was coming from yearlys. Gotcha. Um so like the 10 is basically just all renewals.  Now, are you slowing down your your outreach playbook during this time?

Yeah. Yeah, we stopped  just because it's not as effective. We stopped. Yeah. And like there was a lot less influencers  we really wanted. Okay. So, we learned what a good influencer looked like. Yeah. We stopped really  signing influencers. We kept the team we currently have. Um, we were experimenting with paid, but  we were never going crazy with it.

So, we kind of cut paid a little bit. And then we were just  like we were just co like for the next few months now until August, we're just going to be coasting  and rebuilding the product. Okay. So, like I'm thinking about hiring now someone to just rebuild  the product. Yeah. And make it all nice. So, do you know what your lifetime value is? Like our  LTV?

Yeah. Of a user. I don't really. I know our month one LTV is uh like the average the average  user purchases is around 25 bucks for their first purchase. Yeah. Because it's like half are doing  60, half are doing 10. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So, your LTV is probably closer to like 50, I would  think. Yeah, I would say around there. Okay. So, if you spend $1,000 on videos, like $2 RPM for  500,000 views, you spend a,000 bucks on like normal times, how much in revenue do you expect  that to return to you?

Like total revenue. If we spend a,000 bucks on influencers and so if I spend  a,000 bucks a $2 CPM, a $2 CPM should yield back like a 5 to10 RPM. So we should see back like  2500 to 5k. Okay. So two two to 5x return on ad spend. Yeah. Give or take. Now I scale things  differently though. So for these latest two apps, the way I run these latest two apps, I part  instead of like a influencer or whatever, I have like a like just a kid I trust who like I  could basically tell what to do and they'll do it.

Okay. Because like since I'm working too, I only  have like let's say three hours. Yeah. Right. So, I'll tell the kid exactly what to do. He'll do  it and then I'll just fund the project. And I've started like learning how the meta ads algorithm  worked. Mh. So, these two latest apps were like able to scale both to 10K in like 45 days. And  it was solely through just creators and meta ads.

Same playbook plus paid ads. Same playbook  except paid ads just made it 10 times faster. So, I didn't need to sign 10 creators and I didn't  need to saturate the niche to really have an effect. Couldn't you do that for Wrestle AI? I  didn't know how. Yeah, now you will. You can. Yeah, exactly. Especially when the season starts.  Yeah. Guys, I want to tell you about something I've been building behind the scenes.

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If you miss a live call, it's all  recorded. So if you've ever thought about starting an AI consulting business or AI implementation  business, go check out playmakakerai.com. Okay. So is the playbook. Find the right influencer.  Find out what uh so like the new app launching playbook, right? Pick a niche, find creators  in that niche, figure out what type of creator is the most effective.

Triple down on them. Find  their best organically producing videos. Push paid behind those. or cuz sometimes so Corey Zader his  videos don't work well as paid ads right because of the fact that the integration's super subtle so  it's a day in my life he's more subtle than you'd like no no for organic that's amazing okay that's  why he does really well paid it's too subtle for paid you need a direct CTA within like like you  need some sort of a CTA within 15 seconds in the first 15 is that what you're saying like

roughly  you need to say like this is the pro you need to show the product within the first 15 seconds  paid organic you have at least like 30 a paid maybe you even have a less window and that's when  like I started just realizing like I started just looking on meta ads library studying the best  converting ads and then from there I'll find a creator that I like and I'll like just say hey can  you just make these videos for me I'll pay you for the videos you don't have to post them and they're  like off I don't have

user generated content for apps yeah and then um they make the video it'll be  something super simple that like gets to the point of what the app does. And it's like an overt  ad. What? It's an overt ad. It's very clear that this is an ad for Wrestle AI is what you're  saying. Somewhat. Yeah. So, it's like for example, like give me like the like the boxing app, right?

Yeah. How I landed this punch. Boom. Guy gets hit, right? Um before my match, I threw his video  into the opponent analysis. So, I threw my thing into this app. I saw that after every time  he threw like this this this specific exchange, he would drop his hands, right? He throws this  specific to the app. I now know that. Exactly. He would throw this specific exchange.

Bang. Hit him.  Well, cuz Yeah. And he would actually throw the opponent's videos into the app and that's how he  would get like the screenshot. Yeah. Right. That's literally the ad. That's the script. How long is  the entire video? 30 seconds probably. Okay. The influencer will take this video. Will he edit it  or you? No, he edits it. He edits it.

Sends it. He never posts it. Never post it. No. Now, when you  push, sometimes they post it. Sometimes we take videos that they post. They can. They don't. You  don't need them to. It's just a bonus if they post it. Most of the time we work with influencers. We  tell them to post it. Like we'll they'll they'll make videos to post and then we'll either take  those videos and rerun them as paid ads, but we'll also have like an influencer that'll that'll  post and we'll make paid ads for us.

Okay. So, they're like two separate deals. Gotcha. Okay. So,  30 seconds long. You mentioned it in the first 15. Yeah. And then you push paid ads behind it.  Mostly Instagram, Facebook reels. Yeah. All meta. But like we let Meta decide. Okay. Yeah. Do  you know what Meta ends up choosing? Like is it heavy Instagram heavy? Because Facebook reels are  slept on.

Facebook exploding. We have like huge traffic on Facebook. Okay. Shocked. But you don't  really track where they're showing it. You just say meta placement is just give Yeah, you just  give meta the spend. Okay. So what do the unit economics look like on those paid ads then? So for  the boxing app, we have uh we spend 400 a day. We make around 9 to 12 back.

Okay. Right up front or  that's like LTV? No. Day one. Okay. Wow. I know. Yeah. So I really want to scale it. But now And  that's recurring though. Yeah. Specifically. Okay. So you spend 400 on a Tuesday and on Tuesday you  make 9 to 1200 day one, but that's also recurring. Yeah. So it's it day one is like two to 4x return  on ad spend. Yeah. Lifetime is much higher.

Yeah. So that's why we're now getting into RevenueCat  payments because so I've been just funding the project myself, right? So what we're doing is  we're getting Revenue Cat. Revenue Cat has a thing called Do you know what Revenue Cat is? Never  heard of it. So Revenue Cat is like the payw wall provider for apps. So it knows all of your payw  wall statistics and stuff like that.

Okay. Right. What they also do is they have a program called  Revenue Cat payments and it will pay you what you make day one up to 80% of what you made. Right.  Oh, they're fronting the payment and taking a percentage. Exactly. Okay. Right. Then we put more  into 2%. Otherwise, you're you're taking 60 days to get that money. Exactly. Okay. So, how much  do they take?

2%. Okay. At the end of the month, it's not bad. It's not bad if you have that. If  you have like heavy rorowaz, like day one rorowaz, you have to be able to afford it. But, and now I  could take the 800 or let's say they pay 60%. So, it'd be like what they they pay up to 80%. to be  what's 20% like minus 160 so it' be like 640 now you have 640 to spend on ads so that's why I'm  really excited about scaling this app because it's like it's like super low effort on my part at  least like the other guys working very hard

thank you he's a great guy this is the guy you said  Osama or No no no he's just a kid I know that's like he's smart okay so he's smart I know if I  tell him what to do he'll like do it and he'll do it well okay so I'm really excited to scale that  app And then we have another app that's a workout app. Hold on. That other app, when did you start  that?

Um, I started that around 45 days ago. Okay. It's done about 18K this month. So, wrestling  season ends. You're like, "All right, let's kind of put this on the back burner till August,  September. We'll fire it back up." And also, I want more apps buil built on Ror that are making  more money. Right. That's like Ror's biggest You work for them. Yeah.

That's Ror's. Yeah, that's  Ror's like northstar metric is how much are their users making. Okay. And that's why ROK is like  I don't like to say it, but it's better than all the other platforms because according to like  the all like the payw wall providers, right, Revenue Cat, according to Revenue Cat, out of all  the AI app builders, Ror apps are generating the most amount of revenue because they build the  highest quality apps, stuff like that.

Other competitors are focused on signups and like  vanity metrics and they're like, we want our customers to be successful. It's trying to be the  Shopify for that for apps. You know what I mean? Gotcha. Like I think that's the thing that wins  the thing in my opinion case studies are what wins long terms. Yeah. Cali was built in ROR. That's  a huge.

No, it wasn't. It wasn't. I'm saying if it was it would be the biggest like everyone would  then try everyone who would then want to get into apps would try to build through through RO. Yeah.  Like like you said like Shopify. Exactly. Um and then if gurus exist that's like the that's like  the goal but gurus don't exist. You have to let gurus happen actually.

I mean gurus, info people  are great at pushing stuff. Yeah. So like if you have an info guy pushing ROR Yeah. and that being  like a part of the process. Gotcha. But I mean info is a bit scammy, but uh some people are.  Yeah. But some people are great. Like there's some great info. Okay. So you launch the is it is  it MMA? Is it boxing? Is it fighting?

What is like the niche that you consider that? So I launched  two. So Well, I want to get to the second one. Yeah. Yeah. First one. Well, around the same time,  but boxing. Okay. box. That's like the newest one. The other one's a workout one. Okay. It's for  uh Yeah, it's Which I would think that's a comp that's a crowded space. It wasn't my idea, but  I'll say like what it does.

Basically, you take a picture of your abs and it tells you how to get  a better better six-pack. That's smart. Is that like I wasn't actually crazy about this idea, but  I was like when the kid told So, somebody hits me up on Twitter to do this and I I like I always hop  on calls with people, tell them what I think and stuff like that. So, like I hopped on a call with  this kid and he's telling me he's like, "Dude, look up abs.

There's no competition." This and  that. He's going crazy. I'm like, "Dude, you're telling me people are going to take a picture of  their abs, get a rating. I think it's brilliant." Well, it's been turning out pretty good. We'll  get to that. We'll get to that. I'm glad. But, uh, I saw there and I thought it was like so funny.  Like, I thought the idea was funny, but the kid had so much passion about it that I just felt such  a that.

Yeah. I'm like, this kid's like sitting here. He's like like so passionate. There's no way  this kid's not going to win. Like there's no way he's not going to win. Like I know he's going to  win. Like the way he's talking to me, I know he's going to win. So, uh, is he? He's my age. Okay.  So, he's super funny cuz like an uh an app that will analyze your workouts.

That's probably pretty  crowded, I would think. Yeah. So, he's saying, "Let's unbundle that. Let's niche down just to  abs." I think Oh, man. Do you know how many like billions of dollars have been sold on infomercials  for like ab gear? 100%. Yeah. And that's what this is. It's the AI app version of that. Yeah. I just  couldn't I think I just couldn't see it at the time.

Right. But uh because it was like because  there's like a bunch of the looks maxing apps that kind of like gave incorporate that. It gave  a bad look to like the ratings style apps. Okay. Yeah. Right. So I was thinking of it as like  oh it's another rating style app. But no it's it's a huge niche. Like I agree. And uh and so we  started scaling it. We tried organic.

Organic did pretty bad because we were sponsoring. We weren't  sponsoring great people. So like we didn't have crazy results on organic. We started paid. What  kind of people were you sponsoring? That didn't work. It was like some of these like what we found  was when we would just show the cards. So when we would just show the ratings, right? What do you  mean ratings?

So you take a picture and it rates your six pack. It gives it like a score out of  100. Okay. When we would just show the ratings, we got downloads and like turn would spike. Like  it'd be quick turn. So you would show like a picture of someone's abs with a rating above it.  Yeah. As an ad for the app. Yeah. So it'd be like lock in like the gym influencer lock in takes a  picture of their six-pack like uh whatever and then that would be the ad.

Something like that  like hook hook scan what that's it. Sometimes people would download and they would subscribe but  then they would turn out quick, right? And what the best type of videos were the ones that would  show the actual it would be rating workout and then them doing the workout. So because it would  show like the app actually teaches you how to get a six-pack.

Okay. We never like I don't like we  didn't think about this till after the guy doing crunches instead of just a picture of a guy's ab.  It would show the workouts tailored to your abs like design or whatever. Right. I think that's an  important learning point is like not all customers are created the same. like you're getting these  big spikes and you're like, "This works.

This is what we need to do." And then you see they churn,  right? Whereas you might be able to spend more per customer and so on the surface it doesn't work as  well, but the churn is next to zero. So it works much better. Exactly. Right. It's kind of like me,  like when I'm acquiring newsletter subscribers, I might get subscribers that open at 80% instead  of 60%, but they're clicking at 2% instead of 6%.

It's like, well, if they're never clicking  anything, the open rate is just a vanity metric. I need them to click. So, I'd rather have 40% open  rate and 6% click rate than 80% open rate and 2% click rate, right? Okay. So, then we started  running meta ads and then our meta ads started like it was like we would be spending a h 100red  bucks a day averaging around like 200 to 300.

Mhm. And then we just kept like now we've been like  slowly increasing spend. So before we go heavy on the the second app, tell me the you said you're  45 days in to the the fighting one. Both of them roughly. You started both around the same time.  Yeah, it was like is it almost the exact same like time? Okay. And then what have the revenue numbers  been for each?

So the workout ones at like 8 this month. Okay. Um because it also had problems with  like the co the co-founder started bragging about it on X. Okay. started tweeting like on the  workout one we have a crazy conversion. We have like a over 20% like download to paid. What  what is the average? Average is like five. Wow. So people don't even get five.

Yeah. You guys  are at 20. Why do you think it's so different? We have a good onboarding, good pricing. Okay. And  obviously like we're targeting the right people. Yeah. But he was bragging about our conversion  rate and what he pointed out in our payw wall which is like kind of compliant. Like Apple like  Apple even admitted that for the most part it's compliant.

We pass review and all that. We never  hid anything from Apple review, but on Twitter and you never post your app on I mean you could post  it, but if you're doing anything that's anything close to being gray, never do that on Twitter  cuz Apple's on there like a hawk. Yeah. So, and there's this one guy that quote tweets it and  tries to report you.

So, he posted it and if you look, it lists our monthly price and weekly  terms. So, it'd be like it'd be like month on the top it would say monthly subscription. So it  would be like what monthly it was like $11.99. So it's like I don't know like two bucks a week or  something or two 2.4. So it's like $2.40 a week and then $10 a month. And that that's how it  was listed.

You could do that but the weekly was above in hierarchy of like whatever since the  weekly price was above the monthly price. Yeah. And they were the same tech size too which is like  like are you kidding me? Like it was the same tech size name everything but just the higher because  Yeah. because the weekly was above and some guy reported us to Apple.

To be fair, what my friend  also wrote in the tweet is he started saying like he was trying to like clickbait. So he's like a  moral way to increase your conversions, right? So it wasn't even the fact that we did it. This is  like really weird. This is like the weirdest thing I've ever had with Apple. Yeah. They removed us  for two weeks and I'm like making fun of the kid.

I'm like, "Look what you did." Cuz like he's super  amped up. He's like super hyped. He's like, "Dude, I've been like whatever. I've been dreaming this."  I'm like, "Oh, look what you get." Uh, and then we've we've spammed Apple, right? That's why like  to get reactivated. Yeah. Never accept. And this is for everything. I feel like not enough people  have this mindset.

Never accept what somebody does. Never. My meta account got locked in. Got  locked. I got locked out. Like 2FA was broken in meta. Yeah. Right. For my account, 2FA was broken.  Yeah. So, I couldn't log into my ads account. And this was when we were running ads for both. Yeah.  Right. The way I got back in it was I quick added everyone on LinkedIn that works at Meta and  I spam DM'd them like begging them to fix it.

There's always a way. Like don't accept anything  at face value. Never. Never. So people are like people just I like to call it the throw your hands  up attitude. Dang it. Well, I guess that sucks. I guess I'm not in business. Like what? Yeah.  It's like no do anything in your power. I was I was about to like drive to Apple headquarters  and protest to get to get like re reinstated.

So, we finally get in contact with Apple. They  call us up, right? And I told them it's because the tweet. We still don't 100% know it's a tweet.  I I knew for a fact they're never going to tell you it's No, they they showed us the screenshot  of the Oh, shoot. from this narc needs to go build itself. They showed us a screenshot saying  you his words were not.

It wasn't the fact that you did anything wrong because this isn't true.  This isn't truly against your guidelines. Yeah, you could argue it is, right? Yeah. It's the fact  you made us look bad. Yeah, I believe it. That's their It's their pride. It's Yeah. And especially  on Twitter, like you have to understand Twitter's where investors are. Twitter's are where like  consumers are.

Twitter's the spot where anyone is accessible. Yeah. Like you could get in contact  with a millionaire who has like 400 followers on Twitter. Billionaire. Yeah. Billion. It like it's  the best networking tool. Yeah. But you have to be careful what you say about the wrong people  because everyone's watching. Yeah. So because we insulted Apple, a top Apple exec could go there  and yell at his team right after.

Yeah. Right. So they were like, "You made us look extremely bad.  This and that." Um, we had to write an apology letter over email. Like whatever it takes. Like  a page long. You probably wrote that as fast as you could. Did you use AI? Boot it up. Boot it up.  Claude. Claude, make this the most deep apologetic essay ever. My income depends on this.

We just  wanted to say we are deeply I think one of the lines were one of the lines were like as a company  we had to make I forgot what it was. It's like we we took a step back. We took a step back. Took a  step back and said that transparency comes first. Yeah. Right. Oh my gosh. And then uh and thank  God they approved us. He like the guy called us up after.

He was like yelling at us. Calls  us up after. He was like super nice. you ever need anything like let us know like dude I wrote  that with claude and then uh and then we went on like Twitter like we just want to say Apple's a  great company dude that's so interesting that like how much ego and pride still rule everything like  reputation how we look like at any level trillion dollar company down to the individual it rules  all random like it wasn't even me right where like I mean I don't even have a crazy amount  of

followers on Twitter but like sometimes I'll have a tweet that gets like 20k views, something  like that, right? It was a random kid on Twitter with like 400 followers that tweeted it. Did that  tweet do well? He did get views, but he got views cuz the nar the nar tweeted it. I'm not going to I  blocked him on everything. Oh my god. Got to hide that guy.

He can't have that guy just snooping my  stuff. All right. So, you launched these two apps at around the same time. What was the And it's  been 45 days since each of them launched. Yeah. And what's the revenue been for each of them  since? So, lifetime. lifetime like 23 is the uh boxing one. Uhhuh. And around 15 is the  uh the workout workout one. How high do you think all three of these apps could go?

Like what  does like scale look like? So So my goal for the next So I'm leaving uh potentially leaving work,  right? Solely because I just want to focus on my own things. Um I think the company's still great.  I have nothing but kind words to say about them. But for the next six months, I I I want one big  company. So like I don't want to be the guy with like like 10 different sasses.

You could have  an app studio. You could. Yeah. That that and that's what like my dilemma is like I know if I  go and make a basketball app, I'll crush. I know like I I I feel like you have the playbook. I have  the confidence that I'll go I could go and crush in basketball, go crush in hockey, I could just  take over sports. Yeah. Which is still something I'm considering.

But I also really have like a  high desire to build one thing to be like like I have a high desire to focus on one product, make  sure that product's the best product possible, and make sure it's like making the most amount of  money. Yeah. And solve like a really hard problem. See, focus looks different for different  people. I like to say focus is overrated, momentum is underrated.

Focus for you could look  like like making niche apps with the same launch playbook over and over. It doesn't have to look  like scale your wrestling app as far as it can go. It could. Focus can look different, right?  No, 100%. I think what you could do, you could follow the exact same playbook as Flow Wrestling.  You're familiar with them? I don't know what their playbook is.

I I know. You know Flow Sports?  Yeah. Yeah. So, if you watch me on YouTube, you notice I sell these $19 business plans.  They're 30 pages. They're awesome. But you can get all of them combined for only five bucks a month.  So, check that out at the link in the description. In addition to getting $300 worth of free business  plans every month for the videos I post about, we also post exclusive videos not available  to the public, only to you for five bucks a month.

Cancel whenever. We also give you priority  replies to your comments. You'll have a little badge by your username on YouTube. So, we'll  see you. It's just a cool way to say, "Hey, I'm more serious about this than everyone  else watching these videos." You know, Flow Sports. Yeah. Yeah. Flow Sports started with Flow  Wrestling. And their thesis was, okay, everyone's covering, you know, basketball games, college,  this is collegiate, collegiate basketball, um, collegiate football, whatever, but there's  dozens of other

collegiate sports that have rabid fan bases that ESPN will never care about. Not  only do they not care about, but they will never care about. We need to do the hard, tedious thing  and get boots on the ground in not just colleges, not just D1, but D2, D3, and high schools to film  wrestling matches, right? That was their thing. And it's like, we're going to do this tediously.

We're going to have guys in Omaha, Nebraska, in Fresno, California, all over with a camera  filming wrestling matches. Not just like any wrestling match, but starting with like the most  popular high-profile ones. Yeah. like beast of the east for high school is like a huge nationwide  tournament or basically any D1 match, you know, Iowa vers Iowa State, whatever.

So that was their  whole playbook. Paywalled from day one, 10 bucks a month, 120 a year or whatever it was. And they  started with wrestling. Their whole company was flowrestling.com for years. And then they're like,  "All right, like we feel like we've got a good playbook now. Let's go." I think they went track  and field next. Then they went cross country, gymnastics, and now it's flow sports.

and it's a  multiundred million dollar company and they just film and live stream and have a database of these  collegiate and high school sports events. And now they make like documentaries and like they're  like the Netflix for underappreciated sports, overlooked sports, both high school and college.  So like you could do the same thing with your app studio.

You know what I'm saying? Like you could  roll them all up under the same the same company, start with wrestling and go to other sports or  other niches or other workout apps or whatever. Like you could focus, still focus, but have  dozens of different apps. That's true. And that's something I've been like kind of like wrestling  with. Pun intended.

Pun intended. But uh that's something I've been like in between. I don't  know kind of which path I'm going to take. Well, what are you wrestling between? Like it's either  what are the options in front of you? I'm still going to scale these apps that we currently have,  right? Because it's like I have someone that like I because I like I could always hire, right?

Right. For wrestling, I'm probably going to hire I'm going to hire someone that could like just  do the ops and stuff. And then like kind of like how I have these relationships with these other  two kids that are one's doing the workout app, one's doing the boxing app, one and then I'm  going to get someone to do the wrestle app and then all it takes for me is just like a little bit  of direction and that doesn't that's not a lot of work.

Yeah. Right. A little bit of direction and  like money. Yeah. So that's not a lot of work and that's what I'm that's what I'm thinking about and  then maybe then like scaling those and then maybe trying to make like one app like particularly  maybe like so one of the apps I was thinking about is have you ever heard of superpower? No. So it's  a it's like a it's like a health analytics app.

So it's like a it's like a blood work app like you  download it. It uploads all your blood work stuff to AI and it like basically tells you like what  you're like missing out on what what each means. I know function I use function health and it seems  like the same thing. Yeah. I pay 500 bucks. I get two blood panels a year. It all goes to the app  and then they give me all this analysis.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I was thinking about maybe maybe  potentially uh because it's higher ticket, but I don't know. I'm not I'm not sold on what  what I would want to do that could be bigger or just scaling this up to like aundred apps.  Yeah. So, if I were you, like very specifically, I would create a parent company that you own 100%  of. Yeah. Right. George LLC.

That's kind of what I have now. Yeah. And then all of these apps you  start should be independent LLC's. That's some of them you have partners, right? Like this the first  Hayden. What's it mean? You have different splits and like 50% is owned by George LLC. 50% is owned  by him. That's how it's structured, right? And then everything when you make a distribution for  the wrestling company, it funnels up to George LLC and then when you can afford it, you pay George  from George LLC.

Yes, that's how I do it. Yeah, I would just do that at scale. And just know  every year you're probably going to be culling apps. You're going to be cutting them down%.  That's just And that's not anything to feel bad about. It's just the 8020 rule exists everywhere.  Yeah. So, if you have 30 apps, I can already tell you that 20 of them will be okay or maybe even 25  will be okay and five will print all your money.

Yeah. Right. And so, you're just going to have  to call them over time. I would like scale the crap out of that. Like, that could be a publicly  traded company. That could be huge. I don't see any reason why you you couldn't and shouldn't do  that. Like, you have the playbook. Yeah, I agree. I think my big concern is hiring. What about it?  Being able to hire good people that could do it, that could like run them.

Why not? Why couldn't  you? Before we launched, I actually had a few more that we were potentially launching and it was  the 8020 rule. Yeah. Right. It was these two were actually great kids and the other two the other  few people I tried hiring just sucked. It's the same thing with the apps. Like you just have to  churn through people. Yeah, you do.

Until you find good hires. 8020 rules everywhere. It's the law of  the universe. Like gravity literally. So you fire you hire 10 people that appear to be rock stars.  A year 10 years from now, two of them will be rock stars. The other eight you filtered through. But  what you're going to learn is 5 years from now, you're going to have filtered through so many non-  rockstars that your whole team will be rock stars.

And then you kind of have something to like you  know what to look out for. Yeah. You just like your influencer strategy. Then you're going to get  better at identifying the rock stars so you don't have to churn through as many. That's what I would  do. Like that will make a lot of money if I were you. That sounds sick. Do you ever use YouTube or  YouTube ads at all or is it just Tik Tok?

I want I want to get into that now with the the boxing  one. Okay. What about Tik Tok ads? paid on Tik Tok. That's what we were doing for wrestle  when we were optimizing for downloads, but like never optimally. Okay. All right. So, we've  we've talked a very specific playbook here, but if someone wanted to go out and start their own  app like you've done, what advice would you give them?

What would the playbook be that we maybe  haven't covered here? Yeah. So, like literally my zero to one is understand your app needs a gotcha  feature, right? It needs one feature that you run advertising on. Okay. that feature, the job of  it is to explain the entire app in five seconds. Like, and it might not be the feature that they  use the most, but it's the feature that's going to get them in the door.

Yeah. Okay. So, it  visually visually you should be able to look at your phone and understand exactly what it  does. If you need give your phone to your mom, if she doesn't understand what the app does, like,  it's not good. Yeah. Right. After you have that, I would then, and I I get like flack for this, but  like this is what I would do if if I needed to go from zero to one.

I haven't done this for some of  these other apps. Like I didn't do this for SAI, but I've done this before and it works. Bought  up your Instagram account. Bought it. Yeah. Like when you're a brand, pay for the verification,  pay for followers in the beginning. Okay. Where where do you go to pay for followers? Um there's  a site MOS SMM. Mo SMM. Yeah.

It's M O Wes. And it costs next to nothing. It's a dollar per whatever  per thousand. Okay. And you're saying it's worth it just for social proof. In the beginning  of your outreach, you're going to get So, the biggest problem is when you're you're going  to be outreaching into the void. In the beginning, you're going to be sending your profile.  They're going to click on your profile.

Okay. They're going to see, "Bro, this guy has  zero followers. Why would I work with him?" Yeah. But if they see that you you have the three, so  your first three posts should just be like shots of the product that look really nice. You should  have like 15,000ish followers. Okay? Pay for the verification if you can. And then once they see  that, the likelihood of them them working with you doubled.

Do you do you pay for views on those  three videos as well? No. No. No. No. Doesn't even matter. No. I mean, to be honest, I I didn't  really do the I did the bot following before, but usually when you when you start collab  posting with a lot of your influencers, that's the best bet. So once these influencers  once your first five influencers start posting, push for mo the first like their first videos to  all be collabs because now your page looks even nicer.

It's I'm looking at a brand. I could see  the videos. I could see other creators that have worked with him. I may know them, right? He's  getting thousands of thousands of like hundreds of thousands of views. He has a lot of followers.  His like account looks very neat and professional. Yeah. Yeah. and you're a legitimate person.  And when you're a legitimate person, right, if I worked with 10 influencers that this guy  knows and I offer him a cheap rate, he's just going to think that that's the rates.

Yeah. Right.  He's just going to be like, "Okay, these are the rates. I either accept it or I don't, but but  these are the rates. I'm not getting jipped." Right. I see these guys worked with them. If I'm a  no-name and I'm just some kid, right, which I I've been just some kid. That's how I know this. Yeah.  Is and then I offer you like $2 CBM. I get like laughed in my face.

Oh, you're just a broke kid  who like knows nothing about this. Yeah. Doesn't ma it like doesn't matter. If your account looks  professional though, they're much likely to take a deal. Yeah. Um for cheaper. And so that's my  main strategy. Uh the DM, you send as many DMs as you can. The DM should be paid promo and the paid  promo for app name. That should be the first line.

Always experiment with it, I would say, because a  lot of people are doing that now. Mhm. But to you just want to con cuz they're going to look at your  DM through that little Yeah. like the preview the first like four words. Yeah. Before they click  on it before it gets like cut off by the dots, right? Some of them won't even click on it. So if  they see paid promo, the likelihood of them I'm going to get money.

Exactly. That's the first  thought that gets like sent to their head. Oh, I'll make money off this guy. Yeah. Send as many  DMs as you can. I would say after you make your first thousand bucks, hire a VA instantly. The  the ROI is infinite on VAS. Yeah. And experiment with meta ads. But I wouldn't experime if if you  don't have I'm going to say three grand to like if you're not willing to spend 3K on ads, I wouldn't  do it.

Just do this outreach stuff first. I would do influencers and wait influencers. I would do  influencers only. If you have over 3K, I would say yeah. How many What's like the minimum amount  of followers you want out of an influencer? I honestly don't care about followers. I care about  average views. Okay. What What are you looking for? 25,000. Average give.

So, some are five,  some are 50, some are 100, some Yeah. Okay. So, if we were starting Basketball AI. Yeah. You're  going to go reserve the handle on Instagram, basketball AI. Is that what you're going to first  start? Okay. You're going to seed it with 15,000 fake followers for 15 or 20 bucks. Yeah. Then  you're going to make a few videos that look nice, post them.

Doesn't matter how many views they  have. They just need to see you've posted something. You're going to get very You need  posts of your like like product shots basically, like statics of your product. Then you're going to  get Metaverified, which is like 20 bucks a month, 16 bucks a month with the blue check mark.  Then you're going to start doing outreach that starts with paid promo for basketball AI.

Yeah, that's a playbook. And then you just send as many DMs as you possibly can. Okay. And  then you I mean you you vibe code the app, use or whatever. No, you just build out the  app. And you want to have one killer feature. You want to test all of your killer features  in your ads or in your your organic videos, but find the one that seems to resonate the  most.

and then triple down on that. Yeah. And that gets them in the door whether they end up. I  would say reverse actually. So you should have an idea of which feature was going to be the best  and I would first only push that feature. Yeah. And then experiment. Yeah. It has to be visually  simple to explain. Yeah. Like wrestle AI when we saw that like our influencers would saturate like  okay they're kept posting about SI and like the results weren't starting to like lessen per video.

We would then have them introduce another feature of the app and that's when then re-triggered  the jumps. Gotcha. It's like a brand new app. Yeah. It's like it's like another side of the app  that they haven't seen before. Yeah. Okay. And it educates them more. So you started this less than  a year ago. What has your revenue been to date so far across all of these projects?

So to date, I  think 225,000 in like nine months of building VI coding apps without any coding experience. Yeah.  Oh my gosh. Quarter million dollars. Most of that profit. Yeah. a lot of time for sure. You've  paid a VA. Uh you've paid your influencers, but maybe if like whatever ate in your profit was  just paid ad spend that will pay profits in the future.

Does that make sense? Yeah. Exactly. Like  your percentage profit would have been much higher even if your revenue would have been lower had you  not done paid ads. So I used to be super worried about pro like I used to sit there and like try to  max like you should do it and at times you should do maximize profit, right? And the reason I did  that was because I was I was very I had a lot of limiting beliefs when I first started making money  on Wrestle AI.

I was like, "All right, tomorrow the app's going to die. Tomorrow the app's going  to die. How many wrestlers are there? I'm going to run out of wrestlers. I'm going to this and  I'm going to that." I think that was the biggest thing that held me back. Yeah. Scarcity mindset.  Scarcity. Just think I thought I was going to run out of wrestlers. That was I was like, "Oh, that's  it.

I'm just going to run out of wrestlers." And then I would have spent all the money to acquire  them and I would never make any more. I don't know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It doesn't really make  I was just like it was just like a fear. Right. Right. It's natural. Now like that's why these  new apps I don't like before like a 50% margin wouldn't like excite me.

I would be like like a  50% uh like 2x rorowaz wasn't what I was aiming for, right? Especially because I only had a,000  bucks. So at the time I needed more than a 2x row. But then once I got money I would be like bro 2x  rorowaz then I'm losing this money. And then I'm like what? Now that I understand like, okay, like  you should just try scaling things to be as big as possible.

Like now I 2x row, I'm like, all  right, dude. I'm going to scale this up until my CAC payback's like 90 days. Yeah. Especially  because I don't need the money now. Like I have money set aside. Like so like now that I'm leaving  this job, I literally set money to the side. This is what I'm going to live on. I have like this is  my like per my personal runway is like six months to a year.

Yeah. Right. If I need need be, I'll go  to like Thailand and like you don't have to. No, what I'm saying is like any means necessary,  right? I don't care at all. Like I'm not even going to think about profit. I just want to make  the like I just want to grow the business to be as big as possible for these next six months.  Yeah. And the profit will come.

Yeah. Any other tips of advice that you may have missed that  people should learn? It's really just don't have limiting beliefs and just keep like keep  doing different things until it works. Yeah. Like keep trying stuff. I always say test everything  except drugs. Yeah, exactly. That's my catchphrase on this. George, this has been amazing. This  is awesome.

Where can people find you? Uh, I have a I have an X that I got post on sometimes.  Okay, we'll link to that. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. I've been dreaming about my first uh Inerson  podcast since I was first vibe coding my first app. This is what I was thinking about. I dude,  this is awesome. If you like this content, please share with a friend, hit a like or a comment  below, and we'll see you next time on the Kerner