Never Ncube, CEO Of Dandemutande In Conversation With Trevor Transcript, AI Summary & Key Points

00:00 Greetings. Welcome to In Conversation with Trevor, brought to you by Heart and Soul Broadcasting Services. I go beyond the headlines and beyond the sensational. Today I'm in conversation with Nean Mub, the chief executive officer of Dande Investments. If you enjoy this conversation, please remember to subscribe, to like, and to share. Let's get down to some business.

00:37 >> [music] [music] >> Obviously with fiber you get more upload speeds than what you can get [music] on on satellite. I had this mild polio. I couldn't put on a shoe. Now you see me with shoes, you can't believe it. Everyone thinks that connectivity should [music] be cheap because darling is cheap. >> My good brother Nevin Mub, welcome to In Conversation with Trevor.

01:08 >> Thanks Trevor and it's a great pleasure to be talking to you today and talking about my story and the journey that I've traveled. >> A bit of nepotism, isn't it? >> It is. It is. But it happens in life. So you you talk to me about what exactly does Dand Mutande do? What services do you offer? What's the breath of uh services that you offer? >> So Dutande is a business that was founded in 1997.

01:38 So we've been in business for 29 years now. started off as a small ISP mainly servicing Delta Corporation and then over the years we grew into becoming an internet access provider. We got a license from Portras and then through inorganic growth particularly between 2015 and 2016 we merged with Iwayi and Africa online. Then in 2016 we acquired your Africa and a small satellite provider in mitar called Bizard communication [clears throat] >> and we've now grown mainly now organically to become one of the large unified

02:25 telecommunication services provider in this country. >> Uh but we've grown beyond Zimbabwe. We now have an operation in Malawi. We've got an operation in Botswana and we bought into a business in Namibia called Africa online where we've got 49% and we are the the managing partner. The services that we provide broadly are broken down into four pillars.

02:52 >> The main pillar is still connectivity which we provide using fiber of our own in the main and also third party fiber in the spirit of infrastructure sharing. But we are also an enterprise reseller of sterling services. At some point in our journey we also used to have wireless services YAX and LTE but we've discontinued those services. In addition to that we do cloud services.

03:15 We've built four facilities in Zimbabwe three in Arar and one in Wulawayu. The ones that are in Arar we coer a facility with multi- choice. We co-chair another facility with the old mutual and then we've built a facility of our own at our head office which is the largest of the three in Nar and in Bulaway we are at ZPC Mondros where we've got a facility there and we've got presence also in South Africa on that's that's those are the really facilities on the cloud then we do cyber security it's a big thing now Trevor

03:51 cyber security and and I think we kind of ahead of time we foraw that this this this the service was going to be in demand. So in 2024 we set up a security operating center at our at our head head office there where on a 247 basis we monitor customer networks but we do end to end cyber security uh services from uh training and awareness to the firewalls and the endpoints to cyber security audits and and at the end of it that is the 24/7 monitoring.

04:26 Then the last bit which is really the emerging part of our business is managed services and under that we are now beginning to help organizations on their digital transformation journeys automation and also the AI story which everyone is now talking about. So helping organization understand the use cases of AI where they can apply it in their organizations and in which areas is it cost optimization is it customer experience is it about security and then you're just working with them and co-creating uh some of the

05:02 things that they should be doing within the the businesses >> which which is the biggest segment of uh of your business. >> Connectivity still accounts for almost 65% of our business. So that's where the beacon is for for lack of a better word. But we are so seeing growing demand for cloud and and cyber security and the growth in cloud. Uh Trevor, there's always an uh benefit of some of these calamities that visit us.

05:34 Co was one of those. And postco we saw a lot more people now beginning to appreciate the need to have their systems on the cloud and the demand for cloud services has been growing since then. But with that increase in in in cloud services and with more people spending time on the internet, we've also seen the cyber security bit coming through because stories around cyber crimes are on the rise as well.

06:03 >> Mhm. you [clears throat] you you I like your your payoff line and your promise uh which is uh we sell sleep not speed. I mean I found that very interesting. Unpack that uh for us. What does that mean? >> Yeah. So so what we've noticed Trevor is our our customers or partners they are really not looking for how many megabits per second. M >> what they are looking for is is resiliency is compliancy is being able to do what they do best without being worried about technology in the background.

06:39 Right? >> So we we are basically saying if you are a partner of ours will give you the comfort to do what you are good at while least we are looking after your business. M the the the I get a sense that connectivity is becoming increasingly commoditized. Is that your experience? And if so, where do you see the future of DMAN going forward? And you're right, Trevor, commod you you used the word commoditized.

07:11 I think the industry is saying connectivity is being democratized. Okay, >> that's the word that they are using that it's going to be at some stage become available to everyone >> at an affordable price and and and we've seen that. I'll tell you a stories Trevor when I when I >> when I joined this industry in at the tail end of 2012 from INSCO the industry was selling was selling 1 megabit per second at 1,200.

07:43 >> Today is Yes. Today is $15. >> Wow. So there's really been the democratization of connected. Yes, customers are still wanting it to go to $4 to $3 like other markets, but we'll get there. And what we've seen, especially in the last two or so years, is more capacities coming into Zimbabwe and [snorts] with that prices are still are still coming down.

08:07 M so the next best thing is what are the overthe-top services that players like ourselves are are going to do and there in lies the opportunities around cloud services cyber security digital transformation and AI because those are the those are services of the future and being able to >> not not just force services to customers but being able to co-create solutions with the customers.

08:37 M m is is Delta still a shareholder? >> No. Delta was never a shareholder in in in Dandm but it had some of its executives that were were shareholders that are that are now that are now retired but they are still minority shareholders in the business. >> Okay. Now with with this notion that uh connectivity is becoming democratized to use your term my term is commoditized.

09:05 Um when you look at the investment that you made into um uh 891 kilometer fiber backboard between Bbridge Sabula Bulaway does that investment still makes sense would you make that investment today? The answer is yes. Okay. Yeah. because with all the different types of connectivity technologies whether satellite whe and fiber but at the end of the day I think a lot of the big pipes will always be driven through fiber >> right >> and a lot of the content that we are currently using especially from Zimbabwe sitting in

09:45 South Africa and and therefore it justifies a pipe that we've built from bait bridge all the way up to Somula and also to to Bulawa because the amount of bandwidth that will be needed in in terms of the traffic would only going to increase. It's never going to become fewer and fewer because what is making people get the capacities they want >> is the price.

10:12 >> So as the price is going down, people are going to get more and there are more more use cases. People are going to have smart homes. They're going to have a lot of connectedness. IoT's are going to be the way of the future. And now everyone is talking about having GPUs so that they can train their >> GPUs. By the way, general No, no. Can't remember what they called.

10:39 >> No, no. It's it's a the opposite of it is the CPU. Okay. >> Yes. But what we are basically [clears throat] saying in a GPU is it's got a higher processing power than your normal compute power that you have. >> Well, wouldn't wouldn't a satellite be the thing? So, so G is for graphic [clears throat] graphic processing processing units. Yeah. >> Well, wouldn't a satellites be the right way to go instead of digging trenches?

11:06 Pardon my ignorance. >> Yeah. I I think these technologies always work side by side and complement each other. There are use cases for satellite but there are also use cases for fiber and if you are really an enterprise customer your number one connectivity solution at this stage we don't know what the future holds in terms of the the new technologies and satellite but as we speak now if you are an enterprise customer fiber will still be your number one priority in terms of in terms of a solution with satellite as a a

11:41 cup because obviously with fiber you get more upload speeds than what you can get on on satellite. >> Mhm. Let's let's go now to never the the the young man uh growing up. Uh where where were you born? Which schools do you go to? So that's and that's the exciting part of of my story. I was I was born what I always tell people is it's called Essexville Tribal Trust Lads >> now called yeah that's where I was born in 1971 Trevor >> and born in a family of of 11 >> uh four boys and seven seven girls I'm I'm the second from

12:33 last. So I only have one one brother to I had one brother to beat up and bully. Yes. Yeah. So that's that's that's that's where where where where I was born. And I grew up in a in a rural setup for the 17 years up to up to all levels. While you see Escodin is only 54 km from >> I only went to Bulawa after my O levels. That was my first time to go to Bulawa.

13:05 That was in 1989 growing up. So I had a very rural life if for for lack of a better word. But that was 1971. Then Trevor 1972 I had a medical challenge. You know growing up in a rural setup I then got mild polio. >> Oh h. and which meant that I needed to obviously get get medical attention. I obviously I never fully recovered from that mild polio. But then the the other bit of it was you know the hospitals then were not very sensitive to infectious diseases.

13:51 So 1972 whilst I was being treated for mild polio I got tuberculosis. So I had to I had to stay at below infectious disease for 6 months. Then with tuberculosis there wasn't what is the there now where you can finish the course while at least you are out of hospital. There you needed to do your 6 months. So I stayed as a one year one and a half year old kid for 6 months in hospital.

14:21 And I still remember every time I go to to my rural home, there is this lady who was also in hospital at the same time. He always looks at me said, "You should have died. I don't know why you didn't die." But and I said, "I'm here. So I didn't die because I'm here." So that that was the challenge. and and that challenge when I reflect off of it, it forms a large part of who I am today because that's a crucible that I always draw inspiration inspiration from.

14:53 But fast forward, Trevor 1977, we're all in the rural areas. Uh and then there was the Manama case, the high school conduction that were that were taken to Botswana to join the war. Then I started grade one in 1978 Moab primary school. And when I started grade one, a lot of the kids in the villages around there were no longer going to school because their parents were afraid that they would be adopted.

15:29 So here is this this boy with mild polio and he's supposed to start grade one and I my parents say no you why the rest of your siblings are going to stay at home you've got to go to school because we don't think that anyone's going to adopt you. Oh, and uh obviously that's where that's that's what that that's when that's what what happened in 1978. But kids are kids.

15:59 When you see some of your siblings are not going to school, you always make a plan. So in 1979, uh me and a few of my friends, we decided to play truence. H leave the home, hide, not get to school. H and and these things always catch up because then you have to have end of term results >> and at the end of term I think it was second term the results came through and I'm not so sure whether I was number 34 or number 42 or 46 students and I got a beating of my life and I still remember that incident that it changed the

16:40 way that I look at that I look at schooling. So I grew up pro purely Trevor in a in a very rural setup going obviously head in Kgley like like all the other kids but I also had an experience with the war in 1978 where there was an encounter in in in Mabin what used to happen especially I think it was towards the mid of 7078 we now had we used to call them gorillas you know and the other guys called them terrorists.

17:11 So, so, so, so they they came through and every evening around about not every night around about 2:00 a.m. they'll be moving around the villages. They won't knock, they will kick the door and then the parents will wake up and go to the base for orientation, political orientation. So that happened for a while and then there were two of them that then went to the shopping center for reconnaissance but they got drunk and they decided to to fire at a swift truck and the war broke out and we were playing.

17:44 I remember Trevor the bullets flying all over and we eventually hid in some in some granaries to make sure that we that goes they the two of them got killed >> and you know what they did >> they tied their their their legs at the back the two of them and then they were they pull dragged at the shopping center to show everyone what a terrorist looks like.

18:12 >> That was also an experience of of the war. But that's the one and then we all celebrated independence Trevor. It was a big thing when independence arrived infantry battalion was one of the assemble points. So we had a firsthand experience of the guys coming back and making noises the singing. >> Tell me never what does this teach you? I mean, what lessons have you walked away with from this rural upbringing, this uh uh um encounter with uh with with the gorillas, the the polio uh the tuberculosis.

18:54 Talk to me about what lessons this gives you which you still remain with where you are now. >> Yeah. So the first one is humility >> because I draw inspiration from from that. So that's the one big thing. The second one is resiliency >> and and and resiliency is not you you've got to experience it. You got to experience the hardships to come out and say I'm resilient and and I I I I experienced all those those those hardships.

19:26 And uh the other thing that has taught me is the power and the love of a mother. Wow. Because my mother made all those decisions on our behalf. The other bit that I haven't told you is obviously you know 1982 to 1984 is the dissident and kukraundu era and half of the the road blayo to baitbridge on the western side is all dawn to dusk cues the schools are on the other side and every day would ask for permission to go to school but and and and we will see >> we forget about those moments don't we >> we do we do forget

20:09 about the about that and and the impact that it has in your in in in your upbringing and and we we go to school with the kids that are maimed. I think I remember one boy whose upper lip was cut off. But it shows the compassion that we we need to to to to have as as as human beings. But it also shows that war is not a good thing and should be avoided all the time.

20:39 But in that Trevor, because I had this mild polio, I couldn't put on a shoe. >> Now you see me with shoes, you can't believe it because the the only shoe that I could put at a later stage was a tender foot because it's soft. You know, the tender foot is soft. So that's the only shoe that I could put on all the way up to grade seven. I couldn't put on any other shoe.

21:05 And the ridicule that you get from the other kids and and this is one thing that >> we don't we don't talk about and and we don't express that it can be something that kills you if you are in an environment where you are different and the other kids are ridiculing you. >> What did it do to you? I mean, uh, you you you do look like you you you have polio.

21:31 What has that done to you? That ridicule. Have you healed from it or is still part of who you are? I I I think it actually gave me a new energy and the way that I got back at people on that is to be the best version of myself. So when I went to to the secondary school mab secondary school then I graduated from putting on a tender foot to putting on a sandak.

22:05 >> I'm going to stop you there. That's that's a powerful story. You graduated to become the better side of yourself. Uh from this moment of ridicule, being laughed at, you find the resilience and the courage to refashion yourself in the person that you want to become. >> When we come back at home, don't go away. Join us after the break. When we come back, I want to go to that to to to continue with that with that uh uh um seam of uh the discussion, but to ask the question, how does this uh accountant become a manager

22:42 of a technology company? And indeed, what makes you decide that you're going to ch study accounting rather than anything else? Is that part of your fighting back and saying, "I'm going to show them who exactly I am." At home, don't go away. Join us after the break. >> On the 1st of June 2024, I lost my wife. >> Oh man. >> And in February this year, I lost my mother.

23:11 But I'm at peace. [music] [music] Welcome back to our conversation with Nean Mub, the chief executive officer of Dandemande Investments. You you were sharing with us very touching part of your life's live lived experiences which is people laughing at your condition. You not being able to wear shoes until quite late. And my question is what did this do to you?

24:00 How were you able to bounce back from that ridicule um of your physical condition? Nothing that you had anything to do with. Yeah. So, so the way that I responded to that Trevor was to show them that I could be better than them academically. >> So, that was the first response. So when I went to to M secondary school uh my elder brother because we now in the same class remember I said they were allowed to >> Yes.

24:36 >> So my parents could not afford to take the two of us to to Minguani High School. So because generally my elder brother was better than me at school. So he went to to a boarding school high school and I went to Mob. that it was an upper top. Remember the school that used to be called upperes. So the response that I did Trevor was to dig in on my academics.

24:59 And if if I tell you that from form one every term, every year up to form four, I took position one. >> Wow. And I was the best student of that school. Uh class of 1988. And I held the record of being the best student for more than 20 years. >> Wow. So you're doing this deliberately, are you? >> Yes. >> How are you how are you doing it? Are you working too hard?

25:30 Are you not sleeping and studying? Talk to me about that. >> No, no, not really working too hard, but working smart >> and and studying h but also sleeping at the same time. But but at times Fridays to Sunday not being able to sleep. Uh well because one of the things that my my mother did was when she realized that my my my my elder brother was going to a boarding school.

26:00 I was now going to to Mabini. My father was a farm for foreman. So there wasn't enough money to go around. So my mother used to be she she passed on this February. >> Oh, so rest in peace. >> Yeah. So she was 7 Adventist, but she took a break from her faith to be able to brew traditional beer and send us to school. So on Fridays to to Sunday, the radio will be blasting in the in the in the yard >> because people will be coming there to buy the beer and you know the whole night they're making noise, the radio is

26:45 blasting. But in that there was a young boy who was studying on a on a on a kangi light or on a paraffhin light making sure that he's number one >> for four years every term. M what do they what do those who are laughing at you for your physical challenges say when they say you see you excel are they still laughing at you >> no one is laughing anymore [laughter] no one is laughing anymore >> so I finished that Trevor and and and obviously I then then I went to I remember I told you that the first time that I went to

27:22 Wulawayo was after my my O levels and and and I was very clear I'm from a rural setup up. Everyone wanted to be a teacher. So I arrive with my mother at Paronist. My uncle used to work for for for Zimbeck and I say my mother says no I've brought never. He wants to be a teacher. So you need to organize place either at Hillside Teachers College or United College of Education.

27:46 And my uncle says he's going back to school. >> Mhm. >> He's not doing teaching. So that's how I ended up going to Mileigas High School. >> Good choice. >> Yes. Yes, that's where I went to. >> Yes. So, so then I spent two years at Migga High School, >> continued with the with the my academic proess. >> Uh I participated and I'm very proud of this in the mathematics olympiad.

28:14 >> Wow. And we were were the best school in Mateland in sorry in Blao and we represented Mateland at the finals in Har that again a first one to get onto a train and come to Arar to use it to participate. We got number two were beaten by Gutama boys. But I'm proud of being a mathematic Olympian as well. And then at school at Mleazi did very well. Got a lot of book prizes and for the class of 1990 I had the second highest points in that school.

28:50 >> Well done. >> So for me it was kind of finding a place of comfort in reading. >> Have you found that place of comfort? Have you are you now comfortable? >> I'm at peace now. >> You're at peace now. >> Now I'm Now now I'm very much I'm very much at peace. >> Talk to me. Who is Is it your uncle who influenced you to do accounting? Talk to me about that inspiration.

29:12 >> Yes. So So my first choice of of a program was there was a pro a degree program I'm sure still there called RP >> rural >> rural and urban planning. That's the one that I wanted Trevor to do. And because my uncle was working for a bank, he then he chose the profession for me. He said, "No, you've got you've got 12 points. You're going to go and do BAK."

29:35 And the rest is history. >> You went to do BAK at the University of Zimbabwe? >> Yes, I did Bachelor of Accountants honors. >> Is uncle still alive? He Trevor, there's one bit that I I I didn't tell you about that in the in the last 30 months >> from 2023 to February this year, I've lost three of my best loved people. >> I'm so sorry. >> 2023 in May, I lost I lost my uncle, the one who made me in terms of profession.

30:12 And the 1st of June 2024, I lost my wife. >> Oh man. >> And in February this year, I lost my mother. But I'm at peace. >> How come? >> Because you don't doubt the grace of the Lord. >> Everything has got a reason. >> Everything has got a reason. How how how do you mourn when precious people die in close succession like this? Talk to me about that. It >> it [clears throat] is tough, Trevor.

30:48 I I I must I must say, but I've got a family and uh and my siblings, we've really stuck together. >> Mhm. The surviving siblings are now it's the eight of us. We've really >> from 11. Yeah. >> From 11. We've lost three and we've really stuck together. >> So that's the one thing that we haven't lost because we all grew up together. We all suffered together.

31:18 >> And today we are still one strong unit. >> But also the the support staff, the N family. I always call them the the family, Shingai, the board and everyone. They they've shown love when it was needed. The the team around me have al actually made it easier to be able to stand up and in that moment of darkness and see some light. >> What what what has this season of loss and mourning taught you about life?

31:49 What has this taught you about life? It's it's it one of one of the things that now inspires me is whether you believe it or not is death >> because it all says at the end of the day we all have a short >> life in this. Let's not procrastinate. Let's make sure that we use ourselves as much as we can. Let's give out of ourselves as much as we can. I do a lot of mentoring and coaching and it's generally to make sure that whatever knowledge experiences lived >> I also shared the um wow that that is that is that is

32:38 powerful there you you talked to me but you your first job was with was it with Delta where you were an accountant where what was your first job >> my first job my first job was with the Zisco That was I started in Cisco Steel in in March of 1994. >> From Cisco Steel you went to >> From Cisco Steel I went to mining Africa resources to Mamawarius business >> and then then there was Delta >> Delta >> and then there was inco.

33:09 So I think where really my leadership journey started was at Delta. >> Talk to me about that. So I joined Delta uh 2nd of January 2000 as one of the head office accountants and then I moved around that was on the Chibu Chibu head office. No way Chibu head where the master of the of the of the high school on second street >> on second street yeah that was the head office for for Chibu.

33:38 Oh, that that's when that's when I that's that's where I joined and was reporting to Alex Makam is now the group FD of of of Delta. And then there was also Bongai Chiaro who was the then the FD of of of Chibu. So Delta allowed me to really express my my talents and Chibi in particular because I then moved within the breweries. I did Mara Brewery. I did Masingo.

34:06 you were all over the country. >> Then I did I did Wank and then and then and then Qu I actually at that time I felt Alex was being unfair to me because wherever there was a problem he would throw me there but in hindsight now I'm very appreciative of of that experience. >> That's the most amazing thing isn't it? the things that when we're going through them, we think this is the worst thing that has ever happened in my life.

34:33 >> Yeah. >> And yet when you look back is the most precious thing that has ever happened to you. Talk to me about what it is that Delta put into you when you look back and to say this is what Delta Delta gave me. >> So Delta gave me a what I now call human leadership skills. And I say so because during that time when I was at Delta, I saw face to face what it means to lead people and get results without breaking their bones.

35:10 >> And Delta does does that so well. So during my during that time I had I had the the pleasure of learning and seeing from a distance how John Tis were managed. How Pearson Goerro Eaton Pisunga Matt Vala Alex Mark Mimu those are th the qualities that you could see how they led people how they grew people and then there was Mandel training center. I did my MTP with Mandel training center.

35:39 So they would plan, they would identify talent and grow that talent. You know people see Delta today and say it's a 1 billion turnover business. I'm not surprised >> the structures that are there. It's a learning organization. You are always pushed to the limit to learn and it taught me that you can manage people and get the maximum output out of them and they still love you >> which is very important.

36:10 >> You you spent a bit of time at uh INSCO I mean building in Zambia >> 9 years >> uh 9 years in general >> that's a long time. What did building uh in Zambia teach you and the time that you spent with with INSCO? >> Yeah. So, so the INSCO story is more than the building in Zambia. Uh Trevor, I joined Insco 2005 as a [snorts] finance manager for Bakers in the the bread factory.

36:38 But I got a moment of luck. I always call that a moment of luck. In 2020, sorry, 2006, a a vacancy came out at the manufacturing head office for a sector FD, finance director. I was a finance manager. I was reporting to a divisional FD and I had the courage to put up my CV h for that sector FD. So I went to the interview with my boss and a few other senior people and I got the job.

37:15 >> Wow. So in one month my boss became my subordinate. But that that incident itself it taught me something as well that you can change roles without without being vindictive to say I'm now the boss. You used not to treat me well and therefore I'm going to fix you. So you can you can do that. So that was the the first moment and then after that as a sector FD with the restructuring I was then posted to Zambia to to become the inaugural FD for Inco Zambia Holdings.

37:50 But the bigger responsibility was turning around Spa Zambia. That business was losing about 5 million per year and the InSco owned 51% of it. So the real job was to actually turn it around to a profitable business. And with my colleagues Julian Vy, Routtendo, Beta Host, and Mike Yetman, when we left Zambia, that business was now delivering a profit of of of of 3 million.

38:21 But I learned a lot about the importance of systems and controls. >> But I also learned a lot about being able to manage across cultures. M which was very also very key and I learned also to say how do you react when the people sitting around the table saying but you're a foreigner and we had an a big incident in one of the stores where we had huge theft and there and we had to dismiss 36 employees in one day and the minister of home affairs called us to his office.

38:56 You know what we didn't go we but we had done our stakeholder management well because during that time Rupia was the president and we had gone to him and introduced ourselves as from Zimbabwe. He was born in Guanda. >> Yes I know that. >> So so we knew that we had some begging. So when the minister called us we didn't go to his office. >> But building from ground up is hard.

39:20 M >> it's the small steps that you need to embark on but what you should should never do is to stand still. >> You say actually as we take a break here and go to the next uh next uh segment you say that um leadership excellency is about paying attention to the boring details and I want us to go to those boring details when when we come in. you are a farmer.

39:48 That's I think that's what a lot of people don't know about you. And uh when we come back, I also want us to uh to go to to to that to that place and also the impact that Starink has had on your business. Um so at home, don't go away. Join us after the break. With the type of our industry, you need to understand that wisdom does not always flow from the head downwards.

40:13 [music] At times it flows in reverse. [music] Welcome back to our conversation with Nea, the chief executive officer of Dande Mutande Investment. So in 2012 you get appointed as the chief as the CFO uh for Dand Mutandem and uh 2018 you become the CEO of DMand and my question is how does this accountant become the CEO of a technology company? Talk to me about that.

41:04 I mean, how how how do you deal with uh the crazy creatives, the coders, and uh they're they're made from a different material from accountants. Talk to me about that. Thanks, Trevor. And and and and you know what? When I when I when I when I go out to events, I I at times got referred to as engineering movie. And I'm sure for the record, I am I'm I'm a public accountant.

41:34 So 2012 at the tail end of it, I I live in school spa Zambia selling tins of beans and and all that to to to join land. And one thing that I that that I I know Trevor when we get into professions is all foundational. We can we can be anything. >> Mhm. and and we can be anything if we really spend time to understand it. I remember in one of the events that we we we we we shared the platform you you told me that you are you are now a big a big fund around AI and you you're doing a lot of stuff there and you you're

42:22 investing the time. [snorts] So I did invest a lot of time in understanding the industry and uh and and and I also made it my business to be involved in industry activities. At some stage, I think for almost five or so years, I was actually the chair the chairman of the Zimbabwe internet access provider association. >> Leadership at the at the core of it is understanding the business, the model, the customers and the people that are supposed to deliver that more than the technology.

43:03 Yes, the technology is important but when you become an a a seuite leader you are really managing the strategy the business model the financial model making sure that there's customer excellence the making sure that the stakeholder excellence and making sure that they partners but you're right the the the nets and the and the and the other people in the technology they think they think they think differently And I think what is important is to give them their space.

43:38 >> And I think we are now beginning to even realize that the new crop of young professionals are even thinking in a more weird way, more different way because they are now AI. They're now talking about all this big stuff that the new the the the the skills of the future as it were. So it's the it's the ability to to give them that space have a thinking organization that aspires to always be to live on the edge of innovation.

44:12 >> What is it that you've had you've had to learn and relearn as you got into the into this job? Talk to me about that. >> Yeah. So, so one of the things that I have I I had to learn and relearn probably unlearn is that with the type of our industry you need to understand that wisdom does not always flow from the head downwards. At times it flows in reverse.

44:42 So you need to be able to be a leader who understands their limitations and be guided by other people that are >> not easy. >> It's not it's not always an easy thing but leadership is a collective. >> If you understand that at the end of the day uh the credit will always sit with the leader regardless of whoever delivered >> and therefore it kind of liberates you that you don't want to be the one who is always having the last say.

45:11 M >> you say like before we took a break that uh uh leadership excellency is paying attention to the boring details. Give me example of some of the boring details that leaders must pay attention to. >> So I I come obviously from a background of of accounting and and accounting has a lot of boring detail. H and one of the details if you are a leader regardless of from whatever background you've got to be able to understand and have a working knowledge of how to read an income statement how to read a balance sheet

45:51 because [snorts] if you are a leader and you you can't know your numbers the detail on the numbers and just defer that to your FD and your FM you're going to lose part of that story. M >> so for me that's one of the things that I always encourage with leaders if you are not an accountant by domain profession at least do finance for nine finance people be able to understand if somebody gives you an income statement be able to read it or a balance sheet be able to find some stories there that's the one aspect I think the

46:22 other detail Trevor in leadership you need to spend time with your teams at all levels because if you don't do that there's always going to be some things that are happening that never land at your at your desk. So spending time I know leaders at time they say we are too busy we are we we we can't be spending time with show flow people but at the end of the day everyone has got an idea >> and everyone is invested in making sure that the organization improves.

46:59 So spend time with the with with with with the teams that's also very important. H the the last aspect that on on on the detail that I I'll speak I'll speak about and I'm not so sure whether this will be boring but you've got to listen to the voice of your customers. >> You've got to listen to their voices and you've got to be able to say this is how I respond to those voices.

47:28 Because as long as your customers are talking to you, they still love you. >> Absolutely. >> When they stop talking to you, they're gone. >> They've walked away. >> They've walked away. So for me, that is that is very very important. >> Let's go to the the big elephant in the loom the room, which is Stallic, >> the disruption that has come come in from from Stardink.

47:46 What business has um rather let me rephrase this and what's been the impact of Starink on Nadam Tand's business? >> It's been it's been huge. uh uh Trevor uh huge disruption and for two reasons. Uh the first one it's because we were late to the market. Uh remember I think Staling was licensed in August of 20 2024 and we only started selling in January 2025 for various reasons.

48:20 We know we know we all know what what then happened. It's a colorful story for for another day. >> But during that, >> it's a colorful story. I mean, you you you you might not want to say anything is the fact that >> Tandem Tande was supposed to get the license uh for Stalin and that didn't happen. Do you want to comment on that or you want to sidestep that?

48:45 >> No, we we we we had a reseller license with Sterling. were one of the three h players at the time when they got their license that had already signed up reseller agreements with them. But then when when when they launched the there were now additional conditions that were placed on us to get additional approval from the regulator. And that condition obviously saw us being delayed by 6 months.

49:14 But in the meantime, other players got a foot in and obvious we lost our customers. >> Mhm. >> In the process. So, so that was the the one thing we were then one of the I'm I'm not sure whether were the largest, but should have probably been one of the the largest is satellite providers in the country. I I know our market share was over 30%. We had more than 3,000 customers on the old satellites and we lost a lot of those customers.

49:44 Today on the old satellites, we've got less than 300 customers of of of that. So it was it was huge. That's huge. But but the planning was done properly because if we had started at getgo with everyone else would have been able to move our own customers to the new technology and our customers because of that 6 months they ended up going to what what's the reason for the loss?

50:07 Is it because the quality of service? Is it price? Talk to me about that. >> No no it's it's it's different technology. the the old geo satellites you know the sterling satellites are about 500 km from here >> the old geo ones are between 35 and 40,000 km from here so the the technologies are so different in terms of the speeds and and and and and the quality of service so by default comparing the two you you'll move to the absolutely we'll move to the to the Leo one so that was the one impact where We saw customers

50:44 our customers leaving because we couldn't provide a service because of the additional conditions that were that were placed on on us and and a few other other players. In the meantime, we had new players that are coming in to to provide the service. And then the second impact was also on our wireless uh services 4G and YAX as well. And again, it's just the quality of the of the technology that Stalink was was providing.

51:16 So it I think I would say between those two, the impact on the wireless and the impact on the old satellites, we probably would have lost probably close to about 25% of our revenue. >> That's huge. >> That's huge. Yeah, that's 25% of our revenue. We've recovered now. >> Yes, I was going to ask you. Yes, we recovered a big chunk of it in that in the 18 months that we now selling, we've now gotten back some of the customers that had moved because they had been with us for for a long.

51:54 So, we now almost have about 1,500. >> So, you of your growing market share. >> Yes. Yeah. But we had more than 3,000. So, we're still less than halfway from from where we are from where So, that was the one impact. But then the other impact it's the pricing of of connectivity generally that everyone thinks that connectivity should be cheap because sting is cheap.

52:16 So we've now seen discounts on fiber and other services that are not styling related because the customers are comparing the styling price. >> The customer is gaining. You just said that when you don't talk to your customer it means the customer is gone. The customer is loving this. >> The customer is loving this. What's what's the what's what does this then mean to Dandm in terms of your managing your uh resource deployment and that kind of stuff.

52:44 What does this mean? >> So so that's that's one of the reasons why now we are elevating the other products. Okay, >> remember I spoke about cloud, cyber, managed services because when when the customer is connected, >> what else can we do with that customer >> so that we increase the wallet share because obviously everyone eventually will be connected >> and it's the things that will do over and above the connection that are going to continue giving money to to people like ourselves.

53:18 Potras says that um internet penetration is about 84 uh.55%. Um but given the issues of unreliability, expensive uh internet uh intermittent connectivity, do you is this internet penetration or we're counting uh subscribers without looking at at the quality? What what's your sense on that? You want to push back on that? Yeah, I I think we really it's based on a subscriber count and and this in includes fixed internet connection, satellite and mobile as well.

53:57 Don't forget about mobile. >> Is that the right measurement? It it I think I think it is it is it is right because quality has to be addressed elsewhere because we we there's there's a quality of service charter that potass has where it should actually be monitoring the quality and penalizing the the the providers that are not providing the quality that is that that is needed but quality is also a function of what is happening around >> I will tell you one of the things that we've bled with at least at the time when I

54:31 was still the chair of Zappa was the the rate of vandalism on the infrastructure >> when it's cold and it's June and in Arar people are opening up the manuals and lighting fire because because they have to keep warm they are some of our people that are staying in the streets or where we are doing the roads and we end up cutting the fibers so all those things account to to the the quality of service but at the end of the day I think as providers we are obligated to provide the quality of service that our customers

55:10 desire. Obvious obviously customers don't care about your problem. No, >> they just care about are you providing value for money? Are you providing value for money? >> So you're caught in the sea of uh cost licensing taxation >> and then uh me the consumer saying hey I don't care what licenses you're talking about taxation. I want a service that's reliable that's det dependable and I want you guys to be subjected to competition so that I could I get a good price.

55:40 How painful is this Caesar space? It is extremely it is extremely painful for for for provide for for for service provider because I think our industry is one of those that is capital intensive whether you're talking about the fiber roll out whether you're talking about putting up a data center h we don't see the the amount of money that are being spent by the LEO satellite providers because that money we is not accounted for here we just know that if you point out there's a satellite but there's huge investments.

56:13 I had I had the pleasure of going to a satellite launch in French Ghana in in n in 2019. It's it's a massive thing to launch those things into space. Big monies that are that are that that are involved. But we don't see it because that cost is sitting elsewhere. But for us as operators, >> it's the cost of maintenance of the equipment, >> but it's also the cost of repairing the equipment that is vandalized, the equipment that is cut.

56:40 So I think there's a lot of coordination around amongst all the stakeholders to make sure that we can bring all these cost down for the benefit of the consumer. >> What what is the one thing that would change the trajectory of Dandm Tandis uh business? Is it policy? Is it tax? Is it pricing? What is it that would change your your the business trajectory?

57:04 >> I I I would say one of the things and and here I'm just speaking on behalf of the of the industry. One of the things that we've really lobbyed and at the moment unsuccessfully so is really to do with taxation. We've got a special tax Trevor called exercise duty on >> air time. >> H it initially was 5% and I think it was introduced at the time when the former now former minister of finance China was there.

57:34 It was kind of supposed to be a mobilization tax. That was 2014, I think. So, >> and it it's never gone away. >> What about the universal service fund? Is that part of it or that's a >> No, it's not. It's it's it's not this this this excise duty on air time is a separate tax. Okay. It started off as 5% and then in 2017 another 5% was added and it was supposed to be the health fund levy.

58:04 But this is a text that is specific to our industry and this is outside. I think the universal services fund is a it's a text that I think is justified. >> Okay? >> Because it's for growth. It's for also inclusivity in in terms of building up the towers to the areas where where it's not economically viable for a private player to build. So that one I'm I'm not worried about.

58:27 But is the excise duty on >> and you're saying you're not making progress as far as that is concerned? Yeah, we've been we've been talking but but I think it has now become part of our revenue collection basket as it were and and it's difficult to then get >> once once it's in there. Let's go to internet usage. Um so WhatsApp currently accounts for 20.7% of mobile traffic uh data usage.

58:56 Uh YouTube is at 9 9.5%. Are Zimbabweans using these platforms to be creative, to entertain? Are we building products? Are we building knowledge? What what's what's your data telling you? >> Yeah, I I I would say that we are we more of using these these platforms for >> Are you Are you looking for a polite word? >> More for for for [laughter] entertainment.

59:25 It's it's all social media and I think we losing out on an opportunity here. One would have thought that there is more use around education for instance as as as one example and there is more use in actually coming up with the with new products because if we say we are as Africa we've got the youngest population we should be and we're talking about the digital hubs and all that we should be having our young people actually being on the on these platforms coming up with things that are tangible What's stopping that

01:00:01 happening? >> I'm not so sure, Trevor, but I think we we just love following up on whatever is trending. If there is a big story that is trending, everyone wants to hook on it and and comment [clears throat] and all that. >> Are you involved in in in hubs for for for young people? Do you have any hubs? because that's another way of of encouraging encouraging them to get into rooms with enough data reliable data first data data and be able to create.

01:00:31 Are you doing any of that stuff? >> So we've we've we've supported the impact hub as one hub but what we've also done Trevor particularly in the last two years is to tie up with the universities. Okay. So >> innovation hubs >> innovation hubs. So we we've got Nasty, [snorts] we've we've done solucy, we've done quip poly, I think we are doing something with the AU.

01:00:56 But the idea is really to walk alongside with these students, the innovators and be able to guide them on the type of >> problems that are in the industry that need solutions. But the second layer is actually to make sure that if they have found a solution, a prop prototype, we are the ones that then go to the market because the times they innovate and they don't know what to do, >> they don't know what to do with it.

01:01:24 >> So you also need now a partner that is in industry to commercialize and go to market with you. So that's really the intention that we have. >> Um as we round off, you are you are you are passionate about old uh students association. What is it that Emma put into you that makes you so loyal to Emma? >> Trevor, um I'm a child of Emma. >> I might be in Arari.

01:01:52 I might be having properties in in Bulawa, but when all is said and done, Emo community, they taught me they they bought my mother's beer so that I could go to school. So for me it's really giving back and and I'm very passionate about it. I've supported the the the the secondary school with the computers. We've supported them with the with desk for the for the teachers.

01:02:24 Uh we've also supported them with the prizes for for the annual prize giving days. And then for the primary school, we we've we've actually we we helped them build a class a classroom block. >> What does this make you feel like? I mean, >> it it gives a sense of fulfillment. It gives a sense of fulfillment, Trevor, for me because one of the things that I really want to do if I if God willing is when I've finished my journey, my corporate journey, I actually want to go back to Melbourne and serve that community.

01:03:04 >> Wow. You a farmer, isn't it? Are you able to are you at liberty to share what what what you're growing? Tomatoes, onions, what cabbages? I know sex uh which was no previously known as a gardini is rich with vegetables. I mean red beautiful rich soils. What are you farming? >> So So I'm I'm I'm not doing crops. I'm actually doing animals. >> Oh wow.

01:03:26 >> Yeah. So in in Escodini uh we we had a head. I'm saying head because at almost 2,000 >> piece we are battling in controlling January disease and lamb skin. >> We think that once at the tail end of our control probably would have lost about between 40 and 45. >> No. >> So we probably will remain with about 150 of those. Very we're very passionate about farming because that's what our father did.

01:04:00 He was the farm foreman of Malabala range which was a Germanowned farm. But I only I'm only not I'm not only doing it in in Mabin where we've got this. I also do farming in Yamanjov. I've got a small livestock again. I've got a small holding there 70 70 hectares and I'm also doing animals there. >> Wow. Well done. This is nation building. Hey uh crops and feeding people and uh Emma and his stuff and love what you do.

01:04:33 [music] [music] Shall we now tend to books if you don't mind? We've got a big uh book club that is growing. Nicole will post the link to the book club uh under this video. So, scroll under this video, click onto the link uh and join the book club. Warning, we don't discuss religion and politics. Those are divisive subjects. We discuss books and the contents of books.

01:05:09 So, join the club and let's have fun as we discuss books. Books are very important. I wouldn't be who I am right now if it wasn't for books. I am dyslexic which means I battle with reading, with writing, with spelling but books have helped me quite quite a lot. So um join the book club and let's get talking about books. What books did you bring that you want to share with us?

01:05:33 >> I I brought four books and and uh this is he's my favorite >> John Maxwell John C. Maxwell. I've read a lot of his books. But I brought this book which says the 17 indisp indisputable laws of teamwork. >> This is all about teams. And one of the laws that I like most here is the law of Mount Everest. You don't climb Mount Everest by yourself. >> Absolutely.

01:06:01 >> So that's the first one that I've that I've >> Thank you for that one. Yeah. Which other one? >> The second one is by Dev Bowman. Uh it says have to be anything you want >> taking charge of your life. >> So Dev came to facilitate a a leadership h a seminar for Masawara leaders. It was a 3-day leadership seminar and his focus was about managing yourself selfawareness.

01:06:35 Erh and he says if you can't manage yourself you can't manage anything. >> You have no business imaging managing anybody else. >> No business managing anyone. So Dev is very very good author. And then there is this one and this talks to my story in a way. It says it's how how it's how we end that matters. >> Not how we begin. It's how we end that matters.

01:07:01 And this is from Martin Kungubanda. M >> this is the story of the former president of Zambia Levi Manawasa >> who was involved before he became president in a near fatal accident >> and he then became president and I think for me that was the turning point of Zambia so it's how we end that matters >> absolutely the fourth one >> the fourth one is the diary of a CEO the 33 laws of business and life and it's again talking to ourselves as cos the things that we should be doing in order to be successful.

01:07:42 >> So that's the that's the last one that that I have. I've got and these ones I I I'll mention them Trevor. >> Yeah. >> But I I didn't bring them because I also I also mentor a lot of a lot of leaders but at times they don't bring back my books. So I was looking for them. >> Steal your books. Bring bring never books out there. Hey. >> Yeah. So the the the personal crucibles by John >> John T beautiful book what what a beautiful book his story about wawa prison >> very big and then Teddy Tatenda choo >> mhm >> the

01:08:18 leadership gango volume one >> oh yes heard about it yeah >> it's a it's a marvelous book it's a marvelous book one of the quotes that I always mention is >> is in his book says The river that remembers it source never runs dry >> and I always like that. Then the last one is passing it on by my mundo. >> It's about succession planning. >> Wow. Beautiful books.

01:08:45 >> Thank you so much for finding the time my brother to to come and join us here. Um I'm going to share uh uh three books. Uh the first one is uh uh Hacking Darwin. I've shared this book before um genetic engineering and the future of humanity by Jimmy Metal. It's it's a great book within the context of uh uh AI and what AI can do uh to to medicine to science and and and things like that.

01:09:14 Uh the other one which I keep on impressing on leaders to read is the coming wave. Um when I first read this book uh I must say that uh some of the things that were being said here I I was actually wondering would they happen but where AI is today I mean talk of of cyber security and and the things that we're seeing coming from AI is huge. It's important that leaders understand uh what AI the opportunities that AI presents.

01:09:40 That's the book uh uh the coming wave. And then the the third book again I mean so futuristic in terms of what technology and AI can do the singularity near when we when we merge with AI by Ray Ray Caswell. I mean the talk right now as far as AI is concerned is that uh we all have agents. Um some people have got more than one agent that is helping them uh do their work.

01:10:01 uh the event that you and I attended, I I I s I sort of sensed a a a skepticism in the room around what AI can do and I hope there are no skeptical people out there as far as AI is concerned. AI is coming for your lunch. AI might might have moved the cheese. Uh it's important that you uh you know teach yourself uh AI uh to protect to future proof uh whatever you do.

01:10:30 Never my brother. Thank you for creating the time uh to to to to sit with us. Allow me to turn over now to address myself to the viewers out there to say thank you so much for watching. Remember, we are a weekly show. We are out every Monday at 7 7 a.m. Central African time. And to ensure that you don't miss out on any of these quality episodes, please scroll down and subscribe, like, and share the conversation conversations with as many people as possible.

01:10:57 Until next time, cheers to you all. Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music]