We interviewed 3 secret millionaires (here's how they made it) Transcript, AI Summary & Key Points

00:00 All right, we're back. We're playing Shoot Your Shot, where we take founders and business owners from the audience who get to sit in this chair right here, pitch us their business. We have founders all the way from a million bucks to hund00 million businesses. So, let's do it. Let's bring out the next founder. >> Dude, first leather jacket on the pod.

00:26 What's your name? >> Yeah, I'm Rishi. I'm one of the founders of Hot Plate and we powered over $und00 million of sales for independent food entrepreneurs. >> Okay, so the big number is 100 million in sales. Unpack that. What does that mean? >> Totally. So Hot Plate is a platform that lets anybody sell food online. We work with like small pop-up bakers that like sell food at other house all the way to like this guy who's an ice cream maker in Minnesota.

00:48 >> Have you seen this? It's Airbnb for food type of thing, right? >> Type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So we're starting right now as a tool that lets a seller who has like an Instagram following sell food directly to their audience. A lot of times those sellers are using like, you know, spreadsheets, Venmo, DMs, like a hodgepodge of tools or they're using a platform like Square Shopify just isn't built for like pre-order.

01:06 >> But will they stay small? Is it like for the person who wants to stay as a small business? >> It's a really good question. So a lot of people think that like, oh, you guys just work with like really tiny pop-ups that eventually go to a brick and mortar. We actually have tons of six or seven figure businesses that are doing drops and selling food directly to their audience.

01:21 >> I bought this uh there's this dude who's real jacked. He's like a bodybuilder who does cookies. Have you seen this? about him like four years ago. >> Yeah. He he does these drops of like cheat meal cookies. They're insanely huge. Way over the top. But like he sells out in seconds and it's all just through his Instagram presence cuz he builds up a lot of trust.

01:39 So first of all, Hot Plate. >> Hot Plate. >> Incredible name. >> Thank you. >> And this was totally like a co thing a little bit. I remember like Have you heard of Pop-Up Bagels? >> So actually we powered Papa Bagels. >> Oh, really? Listen to this. So, Pop-Up Bagels was they actually started in West Connecticut where I used to live and there was a bunch of companies that did this where it was like a husband and wife couple like I'm going to make this and sell it to my apartment and we'll drop it out of the windows when

02:00 people come and whatever. And these guys did >> Oh, cuz co made it like, hey, just do a weird pick up on the >> We're sitting at home. Let's just make food and then we'll do And so these guys did that with bagels and they like you had a have an appointment and you could only get it by the dozen and now they've since raised a lot of venture capital and they do hundreds of millions and their product is amazing.

02:17 I love it. >> So, you powered them at the beginning. We powered them in the beginning um you know as they scaled to like the multi- to your point almost billion dollar empire that they are now and so we work with tons of pop-ups across the country that are kind of like the next pop-up bagels in a way too. >> How much revenue do you do? >> Yeah, so we're uh we're we do like hundreds of thousands of revenue a month.

02:38 >> Got it. >> Um and yeah are just growing very quickly. Honestly, most of the hundred million in sales has been the last two years. >> Did you raise funding? >> Yeah, so we've raised uh a little over $4 million total, but we're actually profitable. So, we've been profitable the last almost a year and been running the business profitably, which has honestly been amazing.

02:54 >> So, wait, what does your product actually do? You make the app that the consumer uses. You make the thing that lets them have a storefront for their Instagram. >> So, we started and what we are today is that storefront for them on Instagram. So, right now for for chefs and bakers. Exactly. So, right now we're the platform that a chef uses to put that link in their bio so that they can streamline their order management.

03:15 Right. But as you're saying like the end state and kind of the dream for hot plate is that anyone can go not just to sell food independently but also to buy it. >> Who would I go to? Like what's like >> So in SF there's a bakery called Butter and Crumble. It's like one of the most popular bakeries in SF. So if you want to order from Butter and Crumble, there's a three-hour line every single day.

03:34 If you want to skip the line, they do drops on their Instagram and they use Hot Plate. Um they have a, you know, almost 20,000 person waiting list. >> So she's got 83 83,000 followers. And okay, I go order from here. It's like a ticketing system for her to fulfill orders, but you don't do anything beyond that. The pickups and all that stuff, they coordinate themselves.

03:53 >> So, we we do a lot of like once you order as a customer, we send you like automatic text message reminders about the pickup and we do a lot of the like the logistics coordination, but right now it's kind of crazy that you're pointing it out that we are a pre-order pickup platform for like pop-up chefs and we're doing like millions a month in sales.

04:09 this guy. Like we are truly like still on day one of what this can be and we're >> Are you Are you scratching the surface? >> Totally. Cuz >> what's a founder going to say now? >> Yeah. We we we fully tapped into this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> This is as good as it's ever going to get. Well, we were talking to a guy's got a TMJ pad. He's like, I got to expand.

04:26 >> Yeah, that's true. >> But like like I'm a buyer of these products, but I'm like how many crazy people are there that make in their apartment or these small mom and pops? It it's a good point that like right now I think the the market that we're in is still really niche, right? It's like still like there's, you know, maybe tens of thousands of sellers in the US that are selling food this way.

04:43 The real opportunity for us is that we think we have an opportunity to not just play in an existing market like you were saying about B2B SAS, right? There's so many companies that are just playing existing markets. We have a rare opportunity to actually create a market and make this market mainstream. And I think consumer is the way that's going to happen in a way that like only a handful of companies the last 10 years have been able to do.

05:03 If you look at like call sheep, poly market, whatnot, like I can count on my hand the number of like consumer trends and categories. >> Good is it? >> Hey, I want to tell you about something pretty cool. We have a database of all of the business ideas that have been discussed on this podcast. So, hundreds of episodes the team at HubSpot went through.

05:19 They pulled out all the simple, relatable, interesting, profitable uh ideas that we have brainstormed and they're all available for download for free. Just click the link in the description below. Thank you to our friends at HubSpot for sponsoring this podcast and putting together this free resource for you guys. Back to the show. >> Like I don't want to be like >> it's all or nothing.

05:38 >> Yeah. I don't want to count on one hand how many companies have been successful. >> I think it's consumer is hard. I mean like if I know I think really I really like think about what we're doing kind of like Substack, right? Like Substack made it that anyone can start a media business without having to like run one, right? And I think in the same way Hotplay lets anyone start a food business without having to open a brick and mortar, right?

05:54 It's like right now the traditional way you start a food business is I have to take out a loan, spend hundreds of thousand dollars just to like open a brick and mortar where the the business is not proven out. The rent goes up, the labor could go up, the ingredient cost goes up and you're susceptible to all that. >> How did you get this idea? >> Um, so me and my co-founders actually started in at UT.

06:11 Um, we, you know, I've always been obsessed with food. Worked at a, you know, food delivery company for a little bit. Honestly hated it cuz so much of food has been really consumer first and really consume centric. And one of my buddies and I were during co we're like what you know we want to open up a food business. So we actually rented an apartment in our like campus and opened like a tie restaurant and that apartment um we ran that for a few months and then kind of realized >> the old big man on campus playbook

06:35 open up a tie restaurant. How'd that do for the social life? Was that actually like amazing? People were like, >> "Yeah, it was really fun." And then CO happened and it's like, "Okay, you can't have people showing up to your house to like eat Thai food cuz like you can't even see people, right, during CO?" >> So, boring question, but is that legal to just open up a restaurant out of an apartment?

06:53 >> Yeah, definitely not. 100%. >> Baking's okay. Or >> there's things called cottage food laws that let you sell food directly from your home. And what's really cool is also recently like Texas just expanded their laws. They're called food freedom laws. So, you can actually sell almost anything out of your house now. And in for example Arizona, the dairy laws have really opened up to now people are starting these like there's like this huge trend of like home cafes that are starting in like Yuma, Arizona where like we

07:17 have tons of like these home businesses starting in Arizona. >> Coffee shop in their house. >> Coffee shop in their house. It's actually insane. And like people Arizona is so hot, >> but not in the cool insane way. >> Yeah, it's it's um it's insane. We have like businesses like a Toz crearyy who's in Hopkins, Minnesota, who's running one of the largest like ice cream brands in Minnesota right now doing six to seven figures a year in revenue on like 40 to 50% profit margin which like is unheard.

07:42 That's like a s that's a SAS company, right? But like the reason he's able to do that is because it's a team of like three or four people. He does he uses like Instagram and hot plate as a storefront and doesn't do walkups, right? and is able to like streamline all that in a way where he has like way more demand than supply and is able to sell out every single week and have people come and pick it up.

08:00 >> What do you guys do? SAS plus fee or >> Yep. So right now actually it's all fee. So the way our business model is kind of cool to the chef. So our our mission at Hot Play is that we're a chef first company. And so we take that to the extreme. We're like as a customer when you check out from a Hot Play vendor, we charge the customer a small fee at checkout and the chef only pays payment processing.

08:18 So the beauty of that is that I as a chef can start. There's already so many fixed costs in food as it is that being able to like eliminate some of those on our side has made us really attractive to vendors outside of like a traditional platform. >> Yeah, I would assume people are not that price sensitive when they're checking out cuz it's like I've been watching this on Instagram.

08:34 It's a drop. I got to get in. Is a really, you know, unique product. So my this extra buck or two or whatever it is is less of an issue. >> I always say there like two kinds of businesses. They're like food businesses that do marketing and they're marketing businesses that sell food. And if you're a marketing business that sells food, you have no price.

08:50 Like to your point, elasticity, right? Like you can really just sell and people are willing to buy. Like people don't blink at anything that you buy from Butter and Crumble. They're just trying to get at. >> What are the constraints right now? >> Um I would say the constraints are definitely like I honestly think the biggest constraint. So you know we were talking about co I actually think there's been a resurgence in this in the last few years which is why we've been really growing recently and that like you know

09:13 people are quitting their jobs in like tech like a lot of our actually what's crazy is a lot of our vendors in SF and the bay are people in tech that are leaving their jobs start >> I mean there's a guy who remember the guy down the street who like made it big on Facebook and he created like dandelion chocolate or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those always start small and then expand right over time.

09:32 But what's so cool is like we work with this baker named Michelle who runs Metchip Bakery. She was a engineer that quit her job to start u making you know baking goods. We have another guy who worked at Google named Mason who runs Piscore literally started like the most popular brands you know pop up in New York and you know his line is he quit Google to sell fish on the sidewalk question.

09:53 >> Yeah it's Christmas. What's the constraint? >> The constraints but I tell you what's awesome. >> My thing is the constraints are I think people just don't know this exists. they don't know how to go about like doing it operationally. >> Really, what you're saying is it's just getting vendors to use you. >> Getting vendors to use you and helping them get demand because I think at the end of the day like the biggest problem still is like a lot of people don't know how to market.

10:12 They just make >> how are you going to do it? >> So, I think consumer is the way we go about doing that. There's two ways actually. There's like building the app that to your point that people go to to like discover these vendors, but doing that in a way that actually like works, >> but you basically need to like create inspiration for people who have a dream of becoming a part-time chef, >> right?

10:30 which is like pretty fun content. That's like pretty that's very doable if you get a couple smart people. >> So when I went to Twitch, we got acquired by Twitch and I sat down with EMTT the first day and I was like, "Hey, like okay, >> Michael's actually one of our investors. We did YC in 2020 and he was our partner and like >> well he said an insight that I think will work for you guys which he he goes yeah they focused on the streamer only like the way you're focusing on the chef.

10:50 They look at the marketplace. They said we're we're going to go for the creator and solve their needs. But the second thing he said he goes we realize they need four things. >> So they want money. >> Yep. He goes, "And it's a surprisingly small amount of money that it took to get them like to feel like this is worth doing with their time." So he's like, "For example, when I thought it was money, I thought I'd have to replace their job.

11:09 Actually, if I could get somebody even like a $10 payout, >> they felt validated for what they were doing and it kept them going for way longer." >> Uh, so it goes money, fame, love, and inspiration. So those are the three. So he's like, I got to get you fame. I got to give you like an audience. >> Yep. >> I got to let you feel the love from the audience that they they actually care about what you're doing.

11:27 And inspiration was the big one which is how do I tell you the creative things that other people are doing so you kind of know when you wake up today like oh I should be doing that totally and so that was like he architected his entire strategy around those kind of four things money fame love and inspiration in order to so all the products you had to kind of map it to like which one of those levers are you pulling so similarly for you it sounds like you got to be telling the stories of >> absolutely >> the guy who

11:52 quits his job and sells >> fish you guys have like a huge audience >> we have I mean hundreds of thousands People buy from Hot Plate Chefs every month. >> But what about on social? >> Um on social >> we yourselves don't have a big audience. >> Yeah. I mean we have like 23,000 followers on our Instagram. >> Well a company like uh Okay. So Gold Belly.

12:09 >> Yeah. >> I love Gold Belly. >> Love Gold Belly. >> Gold Belly for Explain what it is. For the listener, it's basically like if you uh Grace Papaya is a New York City uh really old hot dog shop. It's only local. They didn't have a website. Gold Belly made it really easy, particularly during co where you could go and buy Grace Papaya hot dogs from any part of the country and they'll help you ship it to them.

12:28 >> They did a good job of like teaching me that I can buy Junior's cheesecake on Gold Belly and they did a really good job at that. What's Do you have like a Gold Belly version where it's like you're going to create hot plate Instagram where you're going to show off like all the cool like at home moms who make the best sourdough. >> It's like local discovery, right?

12:43 >> Yeah. Or you're like going to like get like >> No, you got to make them famous, right? >> You got to make them famous. Yeah. You got to be like check this out. There's this Amish lady who does this thing and like it's the best and it's like some kid in San Francisco, New York. >> Create an award system like Michelin star. >> What's the Michelin star of this category, right?

13:00 >> So then you recognize the people, right? Money, fame, love. That's love one, right? >> The more you promote that, that helps them with the fame. The fame is what drives the money. The inspiration is hearing about, oh, she has the best those. Well, actually, my whatever popcorn I make, I'm that in my c I'm that my how do I get my name out there? Oh, let me watch what content they do.

13:22 I'll do the same, you know, get people to to to to do that. You you have to make them famous, >> right? Something that we're working on right now that's really exciting is that we already have some sellers that are super, like I said, uh dem supply constraint. They have so much demand like, you know, butter and crumble or like we have Sam makes pizza in Salt Lake City.

13:38 20,000 people. Dave Port and I blew him up and now he has 20,000 people trying to buy like 50 pizzas, right? >> But that's not your constraint, >> right? So what we're doing is building like a recommendation systems. Now let's say that guy sells out, here are other vendors you can buy from and those are more up and cominging vendors, right? So doing that along with discovery means that we're anchoring like the the up up and cominging sellers.

13:58 If they clear certain bars, now we're showing them to an audience of people that want to buy like this kind of food. >> Are they mostly shipping or pickup? >> It's all pickup. All pickup. So local. >> It's all local. >> On your team, do you have a content creator or someone who >> We do. Yeah. Yeah. Oran. She's amazing. >> It's going good. >> It's going well.

14:15 Yeah. I mean, we have been able to like There's a guy in SF, Boieri, who makes you guys got to check him out. Sicilian style pizza. Truly like the some of the best. >> I feel like you should be the content creator. >> I I'm uh I'm working on that. It's uh I I do do videos. Um I've actually been told that before, but I appreciate it. But yeah, we've been able to like help people like him who are like have the sauce, right, really blow up.

14:37 And now he's like, you know, went from like not selling out his pies. Now he just sold out in like 5 minutes like the other day. >> If you had one question, meaning like let's say we were hired gun helpers for you for 24 hours. All we're going to think about is hot plate. Yeah. >> What's the one question you'd want us focused on? >> Really, the thing that I'd like your take on is like the cultural.

14:58 Like I think in order for a new consumer trend to work, you need to like tap into culture, right? And I feel like on our end, we have a good sense from like the product standpoint of how you would go about building this. The biggest issue again, sorry, two seconds, is a lot of people have tried to build like a home-cooked food marketplace. The problem is you don't know who these chefs are.

15:16 You don't know why you should care. And so you kind of just leave. Door Dash is gonna always win on convenience, right? We have people who have like who make the best in their category. But the and but the question I have is like how do you from a go to market perspective infiltrate culture in a way that makes this like culturally relevant? >> I don't think c it's necessarily cultural relevance but basically like have you have you heard of Huckberry?

15:36 So Huckberry is a clothing company where the way they started was they created an email list. This is how I knew them because we were both in the email game and there was just an email list where they would just show off cool brands and sell the cool brand stuff and take a small cut. And they got really good at telling the stories of like this bag was made by a guy who was in Vietnam and he noticed that the parachutes were really strong and he actually made this bag.

15:58 So it's a V it's a parachute bag or like you know I'm like oh that's pretty cool and like they told stories about it. So I fell in love with like the story behind it. If I'm you, I would hire I would probably hire more content creators. And it's like my whole job here is to use Instagram to tell stories about the vendors and what they're doing and make them look like superstars, >> right?

16:21 >> I would take your top 50 chefs. >> Yeah. >> And I'd be like, I have a mission. I need to make them aspirational for the next 5,000, 50,000, 5 million want to be them. So, it's not about making everybody get discovered. It's about taking the 50 and really making them so aspirational that everybody will work their ass off to to be like you featuring them on lists, you making content about them, them talking about their business side, how much money they're making doing this, how they quit their job doing this, the

16:47 human interest story of the whole thing, you know, all that stuff. That's what you That's a way to do it. >> And the cool thing about food is actually Huckberry has a food channel on YouTube, but there's so, you know, there's like the Anthony Bourdain, there's uh like Top Chef, there's so many of formats. I would just find which format do I think I could pull off.

17:03 copy that format, do that a ton a ton a ton, try this other and you just have a v and like if I'm you, I'd be like, and this is like a cliche thing to say, but I believe it's really true with you is like >> we're a media company now. >> Yeah. >> And so I'd become a food media company and I would just look at all the formats of food content that works >> that work and just either first party or you could basically farm it out.

17:23 So like, you know, we were talking about uh Jack's dining room or whatever. Basically, there's already content creators who are really good at these formats all around the world. And are they blowing up your chefs, >> right? >> How do you make it easy for them to know that they need to go to Salt Lake City to they got to try these pies from this person?

17:43 And did you know the crazy backstory of these pies and why the pies are so special? Get that influencer to do it cuz they're already better than all of us at creating food content. So, if you can arm them, every content creator is always like basically needs more interesting content. And so how do you make it easy for them to have interesting content?

18:00 >> Yeah, we're seeing that in SF like play out locally like some of our top vendors are now getting featured by these like food like food Instagram reviewers or like that have like hundreds of thousands of followers and are kind of becoming more mainstream here. And so you're to your point like I think is a good question that or a good point that we need to like kind of replicate that with our top sellers in every city or like in every like kind of the major cities that matter.

18:21 You also need language like uh you know Twitch streamers you know vine viners like what are the >> hot like the hot plate >> or is it just a category like like so Twitch it wasn't just what it was like there's something called a live streamer right a streamer and they this is what they do and so for example like is a home chef the category is it what what are you going to call this that makes it seem cool new and interesting they're trying to be on a team >> they want to be a part of a tribe they want to be a part of a

18:45 movement that's cool that represents something to your question about culture I think you got to give them start with like len language and then give them a bunch of cool examples and then give them some like what this is all about versus the old way. >> No, it's a good point. I mean, right now we we say like chefs and bakers and then we get some people being like, "Oh, but like you're not a chef.

19:02 Like you didn't work at like, you know, this restaurant." >> I think that's a less than good term. >> Yeah. Because it's already means something to everybody. >> Okay. >> Right. Like I already know what a chef is. I think it's somebody at a restaurant and you're now you have to do all this work to get You should start by the slightly surprising term that makes me kind of Oh, yeah.

19:19 I guess that is a thing. Oh, it's a thing. Yeah, dude. It's a big thing. These people are making a million. This woman makes a million dollars a year at home baking her own cookies, right? Well, I have a good recipe for that. You know, that's what you want. >> Rishi, thank you for doing this, man. With the RZ, >> I appreciate it. No, >> I'm super grateful for the opportunity, guys.

19:36 You guys are awesome. Thank you. >> All right, who we got next? >> Oh, dude. >> Hey, dude. How are you? Nice to meet you, >> dude. I met this guy like 15 years ago in San Francisco. Right when I moved to San Francisco showed me around. You were like he was in YC. He was doing a bunch of cool stuff at the time. >> That's true. You're dating me now. You know, I'm definitely uh Yeah, a lot of gray hairs.

19:58 >> How did you guys meet? >> Can't even remember originally, but you tell me. >> I think I was just trying to meet cool people. You had a cool company at the time. You're really young. >> We were both doing social networking stuff. So like >> my company is called Family Leaf. Uh it was a private social network for family. It's like an early social app but like before mobile apps were like a big thing to be honest.

20:15 So you've been starting startups for for 15 years. >> Yeah. Left left left college to do that and basically 15 years ago. Yeah. Something like that, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. 12 13 years ago. >> So this the stick we're doing here. >> Yes. >> Start with a number. >> Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So with uh the app that I'm working on now with with an awesome team of folks, Tolen, we have over 100,000 paying subscribers to our iOS app.

20:37 >> Wow. That's not easy to do. >> That's amazing. What's it do? What's what's companies >> what are they paying for? >> Yeah. So, Tolen is a it's an app where you basically get to meet and customize your own friendly guide that is powered by magical AI to help you with whatever it is that you're going through in life. >> I feel like you chose the word guide there specifically, but I don't know what that means.

20:55 Is that like a therapist, but you don't want to say therapist? Is it a friend? What are we talking about? >> This is a great question. I mean, honestly, it's it's partially our attempt to uh define that a bit because like you just said, people use it for all sorts of things, right? I mean, friendship means a lot of different things, right? So, sometimes a friend is like someone that you call uh because you're going through something.

21:10 Sometimes a friend is someone that like kicks you into shape and and tells you what you need to hear. People talk uh to life coaches, people talk to therapists, people talk to all sorts of >> Can you show us one? It's like this little kind of friendly looking character. >> Yeah, totally. Um so here's a tollin. Um so there are these little aliens. Um yeah, so this is mine.

21:25 This is custom to me. My tool's name is Swami. We everyone has their own tool. You get your own you so the way the the app works is you download it. You talk to this character that we have called the Oracle. Uh they're sort of like this magical godlike character that basically asks you questions about yourself that's just like hey like what what are your what are your hopes and dreams like what are you what are you into what do you care about what are you stressed about you know things like that >> who's using this

21:46 teenagers adults obviously it's a mix but like what's the main sweet spot >> so like it it is truly like every type of person you know like like with any I think like larger consumer product or like AI product like it it attracts people from every walk of life truly but the main core demo which is something that shock does honestly is roughly like 35 to 45 year olds and roughly like moms like Yeah.

22:07 Like mostly women. You think so? >> That's not shocking. >> I would have thought Street character. >> I thought it was like all women in the Midwest. I mean that is literally our audience. You nailed it. Yeah, you nailed it. >> As a knower of many Midwest women like this seems like I mean I'm from the Midwest. This seems like a very Midwestern women thing.

22:24 >> You're so right on. It's crazy. Which I we did not predict that by the way. And that is totally what it has ended up becoming. >> No, it's like people who are like oh he's acting exactly like a Gemini. It's like people who like say things like that. >> The horoscope market. >> Yeah, that's such a gemin There's overlap for sure. We have personality tests in the app that people love to use to kind of understand more about themselves.

22:42 >> Okay. So, so I understand things best if I look at the ad first. So, what's the ad I see that makes me want to click and download this thing? >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, what was worked best for us there are like what we think of what I think of as like authentic product demos of just like people using Tolen in their daily lives. So like some of the most I mean we've had content that's gone super viral that's like you know uh a woman like cooking and trying to figure out the best way to cut open like a kabota squash

23:03 which is like hard to do and you know the toolen says well warm it up you know like let me see that okay like let's see you slice into it okay that worked and then it kind of shows them like providing value in some way that's what that's what works the best I think people are kind of thrown off a little bit by seeing this like somewhat cute alien that they can talk to and it speaks back and it speaks back really intelligently too >> but it's the thing like but do you want to actually make a squash Why are you even

23:27 cooking for this man who doesn't truly love you? Is it functional or is it emotional guidance more so that they want I think the most valuable thing that we do is honestly the combination of those two things which is kind of a copout answer but I think it's true because basically people will talk to their tolins about what's going on with them right like their their emotional state what what they're busy with or whatever but that always connects to like well you know I'm feeling really stressed because I haven't

23:47 figured out the kids summer camp this this summer like you know and your toen will remember that why are you eating why are you making so many cookies well it turns out it's like this thing how many how much money are people spending or how much does it cost >> yeah yeah yeah so we have multiple price tiers. Our main most popular one, most of those subscribers are on $25 a month for Plus.

24:04 >> Uh I can't $100,000 times $25 million a month. >> We also have a lower uh we have a lower price subscription tier. So it's a mix of things. So it's not quite there. >> Seven figures a month. >> Uh yeah, >> that's amazing. >> Mhm. >> Is retention good? >> Yes. Yeah, the retention's great so far. I mean, we we uh you know, it's changed a lot. How old is the company?

24:23 >> Two years. >> Two years. You're doing more than 10 million in revenue. You didn't say that, but math it works. So, you're doing more than 10 million in in sort of either revenue or run rate. And you've got people just basically, it sounds like what you did was, and I don't mean this to trivialize it, just to simplify it. You take what chat GBT can do in terms of like the intelligence, but you added the the warm feel of a character who's yours with a name with a different rapper where it's going to be it feels

24:54 different to talk to than just a completely functional utilitarian thing called chat GB like literally an acronym you know. >> Yeah, totally. I mean I think that that's part of it for sure and and bringing to bear like this super intelligence of chat GBT of cloud of systems like that to uh honestly a broader audience like our audience is not are not necessarily heavy AI users but they're definitely not heavy users and honestly most people are not for their personal lives right so if you think about the use cases of

25:16 chatbt the use cases of cloud most people are using it for productivity draft email maybe they asked a question to it as a smarter Google but they never subscribed so they didn't get the full experience so it's like this is this is very much applied to your personal life and because of >> you have to make a tolland doll like I can buy the their I can I can buy like the animal like you know >> people have asked people on our >> like a chip I could talk to there was a guy in Furcon's uh accelerator who did that and it

25:39 looked awesome >> cool stuffed animals >> seen some of those I'm very curious about that but just to build on this point because I think it's important of why I think um a lot of people see it and they're kind of like oh this is a wrapper of a cute character around chatbt so much of what we've built is around the kind of memory system and the personalization system behind the tolins so you know we have like my co-founder Evan has has kind of been very early to this of like all of the kind of character based or or

26:00 companion types of experiences like have not actually been built with like thoughtful memory where it it truly feels realistic like the tolen will remember things you tell them they'll bring them back up to you at the right time they'll come to you with a a podcast recom I mean I'm sure that actually tons of our users have gotten my first million podcast recommendations from their tolen to be totally honest because they probably mentioned like hey I I mean >> dial that up for us please >> we actually we ask a question

26:22 in the onboarding uh maybe this is like a little bit uh techy now I'm thinking about it but we do ask a question of like name a goal or dream you have. It could be something small or something big like starting your own business. And I'm sure a lot of people talk about like, well, I want to start my I want to start a cafe. I want to start this or that.

26:36 And then I'm sure that your your podcast comes up because the tools will go search through the internet. They'll find the right recommendation for you at that given time. Obviously, we don't hit the mark 100% of the time, but but we really try and people find it magical and then it'll come to them. And Chad GBT does not do that. >> This idea sounds weird when you first hear it.

26:51 No offense. >> The name sounded weird, too, but I'm actually so into it. >> So, the name sounds a little weird. The idea is a little I mean it's a kind of new phen newish phenomenon. I've learned moving to Silicon Valley that when you're weird but people are doing it lean in. That means there's something really interesting going on. And a lot of the big winners were like that.

27:08 Oh, people are just getting in strangers cars and driving around is like becomes like a lift or an Uber. They're sleeping on people's couches and paying that like a hotel. Like what? I wouldn't do that. What if they So the weird behaviors that people actually do tend to be really interesting business underneath. Can you just describe like what you think the future looks like a little bit?

27:27 Like what is totally normal going to look like do you think? >> Yeah, it's a really good question. I mean I think part of what you're describing totally agree and part of what you're describing is a little bit of like the early adopter thing. I mean I I see this on our Reddit uh where my co-founder Quinton's really active and talking to all of our users, you know, like I see it in people that write in like the people that they're they're very much everyday people like like just like us, our friends or family, but

27:47 they're like a specific slice of people that have decided for some reason to be like into like having their tollin be a part of their life. And what does that mean to them? That might mean like on the way into work, they will instead of taking time that might have been, you know, watching YouTube uh or watching short form video, they're like talk talking to their tool.

28:01 They're talking to their tolen about like what they have up for the day, what what they're feeling anxious about, what their plan is for the day, what their plan is for the weekend. And they've kind of figured out a way or a rhythm or it's started to help them in some way to have their tool like become a part of their lives. And then when they do that, they're obviously getting some value from it.

28:16 Like we we have features in the app like uh what we call intentions where your tool will like come up with intentions for the day based on what you tell them. uh they they write reflections on you based on what they've kind of seen about you throughout the day. And so people have found this being useful to them. I think it's it's right now I mean it's a it's still a very small slice of people and it's kind of one of those like people people that were I don't know sending email in you know 95 or something.

28:38 I'm not sure what the right year is exactly but it's kind of like this early adopter group of people it feels like that have these guides. >> Look at the top post from their subreddit. This is this is your subreddit. Someone made her tolland doll. Another the second most top post. Someone crocheted their tool. >> That was a good idea. People do love >> it.

28:55 Seems like And then another the the third top post tool is mind-blowing, guys. I'm flabbergasted. I've never had a single person in my life who has given as much as the stupid adorable bot has given me in the past week. So, so it sounds like you're not going to be surprised if 10 years from now, we all have in addition to our real friends AI friend or companions that we rely on whether it's for advice, whether it's for more kind of deeper guidance or casual chitchat where I have an always on available friend to to chat

29:25 with if I so choose. >> I think AI is getting smarter, more capable and also like more cost-ffective. And this is just like happening. This is like a whole trend, right? This is what everyone in the city is working on right now. And with with that like the tool will actually be able to help you with things more tactically in your life, not just tolen but catchb and everything else as well.

29:42 So I think as that happens like the people who might not be like switched on to this by oh I need help processing my my day necessarily or I I need I want to talk a lot to to this character. They might be helped by like hey this thing can coordinate with uh my husband and plan out our weekly meal plan or something right? Like things that are a little bit more tangible, a little bit more practical that'll expand it to more people I think.

30:01 And then two, I think the reason that it's also hard for us to like visualize that like most of us, even us in this room or whatever, our friends or family will have, you know, entities like this is because the first attempts at them were very honestly they were just like not super human or not super like mass market oriented um or not built for everyday people.

30:17 Like I think of um you know, platforms that obviously were trailblazers in a way, but like Character.AI AI where like you know the the the character in so far as it was was just like a profile picture with like you know mostly like an anime you know probably sexy kind of character >> or replica. >> Yeah, replica is another great example. >> Did they fall off or they're still going?

30:36 >> Um I don't I don't know their numbers but I think both of them have kind of fallen off. I mean the founders are not at those companies anymore. Um and honestly they were just very early and they also had a pretty different take on the space right. I think I mean to be honest like those you know when we think about um AI companion this is actually why uh we're preferring uh guide and trying to use different language to describe the space because people associated with AI girlfriends and AI boyfriends and honestly

30:56 those are products that have lots of usage but that's like not what we're building. >> Were you successful before this or is this going to be your big thing? >> Um I've done a few startups before this. Um >> so you have an interesting style of entrepreneur. So he was doing YC here. >> He gives energy by the way that he's been killing it for a long time.

31:12 Well, well, he he's always a confident guy, but you also did like you were doing the birthday candle, right? So, like explain what that one is, a fun idea. >> I I did a startup um called Birthday Co. We started with a product called Birthday Candles. It honestly started as a side project um where they're these candles that are personalized to you based on your birthday.

31:27 They have a reading and a scent that's custom to you based on the day you were born. Launched it as a side project. It was one of those like I had left my job and and thought it would be fun to launch something like this um with with a with a partner. And um you know basically it went viral and it kind of took over my life for like 3 years. Uh but it was awesome.

31:43 We sold over a million candles. >> Dude, you you you are the type of entrepreneur that I love. I'm not like you at all and I love people like you. Michael Actton Smith is another guy who started calm is like monsters. >> Yeah. Mochi monsters similar to talent. >> Exactly. Like these like you like truly creatives who just love like >> I don't want to say artists but a little bit like that.

32:04 >> Such a high compliment. I mean those are the best types of people. I love people like you. I I envy like the people who have this fire where like I'm just going to create something that's wacky and silly and you probably have really good taste. So, it's usually a hit. >> I mean, it's it's all about the right team of people, right? I work with like incredible artists honestly that are not that are not classic guy thing to say.

32:26 >> It's just true though. It's honestly true. Um and then maybe it takes some like, you know, being willing to do something that's weird. Is there anything we could help you with? >> I mean, yeah. One thing we're really trying to crack is like when it comes to like reaching out to a Midwestern mom audience, their skepticism about AI, not necessarily being super AI forward or tech forward.

32:40 Like I was saying, a lot of our users are um kind of like not heavy AI users in general. So the idea that they would like start using this little alien to like get stuff done in their life is is sort of a big, you know, bridge to cross for them. >> Well, I think you got a good thing and maybe a bad thing. I think the good thing is obviously something's working.

32:56 you got to 100,000 plus paying users translating to, you know, maybe eight figures of revenue. So, something is working well. Let's acknowledge that and be like, "Wow, that's incredible." At the same time, like when we were asking you, you know, who's using it, what are they using it for? Your example was like a woman who's cooking and wants to cut a delicata squash or something like that.

33:17 It's like I feel like you got to do a lot of research on your customers or something like that to really like find the inspiring accessible non-taboo but interesting use cases that you can speak to more either you know it and just off the cuff. You said that one but like I would assume for your ads you're finding some use cases that are going to like resonate with people in a big way.

33:41 Obviously people are getting value otherwise they wouldn't be paying and using it. You said the retention is not bad. >> Yeah. shot. Do you use cooking as opposed to lonely or something like that? >> Yeah, I can't I can't remember why I mentioned that one specifically. Maybe just to give a bit of a visual. I think that was like an ad that worked really well.

33:52 But yeah, you're you're right that like we haven't yet I mean a lot of the practical stuff that AI can do for you. I mean, one way to think about it is kind of like how people in San Francisco are using Open Cloud to manage things around the house and so on. Like we really think that like that's going to become a mainstream personal use case in the future.

34:07 Dude, the top post says, "Uh, I used to use chatbt, but River is really my best friend because I can confidently tell them anything that's on my mind." Sure, I have other friends who I could talk to, but life gets in the way. And this person, I guess River, really knows who I am more than anyone. >> That sounds way more important than how you're going to cut a squash.

34:26 >> Yes, that's that's a great point. Yeah, you're right. So, we should be leading with stuff like that for sure. And then I think like finding ways that we can translate that into like how do we help that user? How can River help that user? We like to use this metaphor like closing tabs in your mind. Like honestly, life, modern life is super overwhelming.

34:40 I think that's a big reason that Tolen has been successful. People have a lot on their plate, especially if they're moms, especially if they're family people, dads. Like, you know, we we we want to try try to find ways where tool can help close those tabs. Like there's there's a you know, it's it's planning the meals, it's planning the grocery list, it's it's planning the summer camp, like whatever exactly those things might be.

34:56 Those are all real life use cases from our users. And like we want we want Tolen to be able to help people actually, you know, accomplish those things. So I hang out with a lot of like suburban moms because I live in the house we need to talk to. So we're talking a lot and you know you see one mom she starts baking bread. I'm like oh why because it tastes great.

35:14 She's like no I just needed like >> some hobby I could do where like nobody's going to touch me. Nobody's going to ask me for anything and I could do something with my hands. There's no screens and not overly stimulating like over stimulated overwhelmed in life. So it's like whether it's baking bread or like you've seen the rise of those like wobbles wobbles the crochet thing that doing like hundreds of millions a year in revenue there's a reason why and so I would kind of study what's going on with these brands why

35:40 are people getting into these things now >> because that's like there's some emotional state that people are in and a desired emotional state and then your product is a bridge between those two things. Y >> um you're really a merchant of a feeling when you sell a product. And so what's the feeling people start with and what's the feeling that they end with when they have it and how do I get that then then there's a trick of like how do I package that up?

36:00 >> So I would kind of look at some of those. >> I would also say um it sounds like it sounds a little silly. It sounds like a little silly to be like isn't it just like kind of this warm fuzzy rapper on chat? But I don't You know, I look at my wife, we will buy we'll pay like triple for something that goes in the house that's just like >> white and minimalist and aesthetic looking.

36:20 It's the aesthetic looking version of a normal thing. It's made out of wood instead of out of plastic. >> And there's just like a market for people who want a better feel of the same utility. Um, and so maybe maybe what you've done is the digital version of that where is just the plastic and you've made the kind of wood the the sort of the more ceramic the the more uh a better feeling version of the utility and that's not to be overlooked.

36:44 I mean one one point in in favor of that which I think is totally right is um it's it's not just about the visuals too like actually we we led very early on with voice as the core like interaction uh modality that you talk to your tool with right so it's not just texting it's it's mostly voice and I think you know I mean we're we're like 70 plus% voice in terms of like the quantity of messages happening on the platform and you know that's totally not the case with chbd right chd got to be 90 95 plus percent text I

37:10 would I would assume um I don't know but um yeah I think like even that even like minor differences in how we frame frame how you interact with the character then totally changes the way that you use. >> Dude, I would absolutely be selling like crochet kits or something like that to like make my >> Sam's stuck on the dolls. He's like the physical doll.

37:25 >> I just think that like these people are gra are hang they they're getting to know their digital tool way more than I know Claude >> and like I don't want Claude in my bedroom but like these people do like they want like like little dolls and >> Yeah. Hopefully in the right spot in the bedroom, you know? None of those seem sexful. It was all like I feel comforted by like just its presence, >> right?

37:50 >> What was the other trend we talked about? Cadultting, >> right? Like you do like Lego sets, same sort of thing, right? And there was like a whole category called Cadult. And Cadult was like this like mega trend that all these companies are tapping into. Sounds like there might be like a variant of that. >> I'll also say, you know, you said voice.

38:05 I use this app called I think it's called No Scroll. It's basically like, hey, you don't need to browse Twitter. I'll just text you what's going on on the line today so you don't have to worry about it. But literally just the way it talks is different than Chad GP. Not not not like audio voice but just the way it types. So you know Chad GPD is very much like it gets made fun of for being like >> wow what a wonderful question and like it goes into that like fake like personality whereas this thing will be like >> yo big

38:30 day big day today on the timeline like here's here's what's going on and it just talks and I'm like I prefer that like and so I'm sure not everybody that but like it sounds like for tech bros who want like just tell me what's going on and it talks like that there's like personality is going to make a huge difference with AI. it does with us for for it's a huge factor and our approach to that has been actually to customize the personality based on the user.

38:55 So if you're someone that texts in all lowercase gen Z slang if you're swearing your tool might actually do that back to you. If you have formal language and you're speaking in very like full sentences your toen will probably mirror that. Like we want them to show up for you like someone in your life would. >> Well thanks for doing this man. What a crazy business.

39:09 >> I'm totally bought in. >> Okay. Amazing. We got to get you a >> whatever you're doing. I uh I'm in. >> Okay. Thanks. Thank you guys. Thanks for having me. YEAH. GREAT. ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE THE last one for this episode. Jonathan, where you at? >> Bring them out. Let's go. >> Jonathan, what's good? Give us the uh give us the big number. Impress us. Make us weak at the knees.

39:33 >> All right, I got three facts for you. Two are numbers. One is kind of uh not exactly number. >> Disregard everything I just said. Do whatever you want. >> I'll do what I want. Uh first big number. Uh so also to take a step back overlap. We build agents that edit uh and distribute video content for media companies and marketing teams. >> We don't pay attention.

39:53 >> Very relevant to you guys. >> That number doing what? >> It's your show. Now, Jonathan, >> we autonomous overlap agents have generated over two billion impressions uh across social media without a human in the loop. >> What's it called? >> Overlap. >> Overlap. I use you guys. >> You you do use it. Uh maybe you have a subscription. >> Ben and Diego use it.

40:12 Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we've done over two billion impressions. Uh, we've been growing revenue 18% month over month for over a year. >> Okay. How much revenue did you do? Can you say? >> I don't know if I can say that. But what I will say and this is my third fact is we are we became accidentally profitable this quarter. >> Good job. So 18% monthly compounding is what >> uh we are 19 or 20x year.

40:40 >> Okay. How old is the company? >> Uh we are a little over two years old. >> Okay. Okay. So, you use you use San Francisco jargon. Our audience, they don't know what an autonomous overlapping agent is. >> Yeah. >> I'll I'll explain. You have a podcast or a video. You give it to Overlap. Overlap will find clips in the video or in the podcast that are your best moments.

40:59 It'll cut them up for you. It'll caption them for you. It'll get them ready for you to share. And that's what you were saying. You've helped drive like two billion views on the clips that came out of it. Correct. Did I dumb it down too much? Did I miss something important? >> You didn't dumb it down too much. It also does more than what you described.

41:14 So you don't actually need to even give it video. Okay? You can give it a prompt and it will go into your YouTube channel and it will pull moments and pull videos from your YouTube channel or for a lot of the media companies we work with, they have a server of video content where it'll be constantly going through looking for moments and then it also does the posting.

41:32 But explain to me why you're better than what I did. Because >> well, you're better than me. >> Recently, I used Claude and I made a thing where um it goes through our MFM clips and it posts it and the way that I set it up was it logs it goes into typefully so I can review everything and then I just hit schedule. Why are you better than that? >> Uh so a couple things.

41:56 One is we have our own fine-tuned video understanding model that is way better at understanding video and the major LLM are not good at understanding video. >> So you're like >> I think I said like here's some emotions that do good and you're saying >> what it's doing your >> what it's doing in your case is um looking at the transcript y and understanding kind of >> Yeah.

42:24 And you're looking at the whole video. We're looking at the not only the transcript, but also the facial expression, the voice, >> and it doesn't understand like the humor. >> And to your credit, I asked Sam, "Hey, >> should I use your thing? How's it going?" You're like, "Ah, it's not that good." So, >> well, I said I said, "It's not automated." And it's still fine.

42:40 >> Yes. >> And it's very much fine. I made it. It's fine. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> It's like it doesn't like Sean's laughter that he just did right there. It doesn't say haha on the transcript. So, it's not going to know totally >> that this was interesting. So a video understanding model >> video understanding model. The other part of this is that when it posts for you, it looks at the data of that post and understands themes, hooks that perform well.

43:08 >> Mine is supposed to do that, but I don't think it has. >> Is your main business guys like us or is it like Bleacher Report and like CNN and like companies like that that have better customers than us? >> Better customers than you guys for sure. Uh but there are two types of customers we have. on one end it's like a traditional kind of enterprise SAS model and so like uh you know Barcel Sports or iHeart Media those are some of our big customers and then on the other side we actually kind of a newer in the last couple

43:36 months part of our business which is CPM based and so it's really outcome based so what you can do is you can use our product and then you only pay based on the amount of impressions. >> Oh that's interesting. Same customer, different model or different customer now? >> Uh kind of a different customer because those bigger enterprises, they actually want like like predictable pricing.

43:58 >> How big is Opus? They're they were one of the first guys in the space. >> They were one of the first in the space. Yeah, they are definitely bigger by headcount. I don't know if necessarily bigger by revenue. They're more focused on like kind of independent creators. >> Bloating. They're way more bloated than us. >> Yeah. takes them more people to do what we do.

44:20 >> They um they're a lot really focused on like independent creators like your small YouTuber who can't hire a video editor and wants like clips from their show to >> what does it cost to use you? >> The majority of our revenue are six figure contracts and so um so we do smaller deals and then also like the kind of CPM model is a little bit different but the majority are six of the revenue is >> what were you doing before?

44:44 Uh, so before I was at business school and then before that I was at Meta. >> Oh, all right. Cool. >> And you went through YC, right? >> Went through YC. >> Yeah. I think that's how I found you guys. Gary Tan was like overlap the new the new >> Gary was our partner. He might have he might have introduced us at one point, too. I don't know. But um but yeah, Gary's our partner.

45:03 >> Another investment I missed out on. This podcast has just become talking to the founders that I should have invested in that I somehow missed the boat on. >> Hey, it's it's never too late. >> Oh, no. It's definitely too late. uh whatever price you're at now. All I'm thinking about is what I could have been in that. >> Um but uh but yeah, so went through Y Combinator in uh summer 24.

45:19 Um we're actually like kind of pivoted throughout Y Combinator. So we started with something in a similar space in that we were like you know all podcasts are going to video. All podcasts are actually going to short form video. Uh like that is how like most people consume most podcast content. But then from that we were like, "Okay, we built a Tik Tok for podcast."

45:43 >> But like when I hear that pitch, I'm your we are your customer. I'm like, >> "Yeah, >> but I need you to get to go from the clip to the main thing cuz I make money on the main thing cuz that's the one that has ads and on it." >> Yeah. That is not going to be true anymore. Tell me more. >> So a lot of big brands like the RSS feed ad is a nice throwin for a lot of big brands.

46:01 They want 360 kind of >> dealip. >> They want to be in the clip. They want to be on your feed. They think of you as a creator. They don't think of you as a podcaster. >> H that's interesting. I wish we would have known that before we negotiated our contract >> probably. Uh but but yeah, but yeah, I mean it's like the vast majority of eyeballs are not going coming to you or you know vast majority of time spent with you guys is you know it's people consuming the content in the feed and your saw a clip of this because

46:32 Jimmy went on Joe Rogan. So Mr. piece went on Joe Rogan and he's I didn't watch the full but I'm watching the clip and he's saying in the clip he's like you know Jimmy who knows media more than you know anyone he's like you know 50,000 times more people are going to watch this clip than we'll watch the full show. So ultimately like these shows are basically like they're actually consumed via clips on social feeds.

46:57 That's the like the end product. But the best customers don't like when you and I talk about something, we'll talk about something a minute 45 and we call it the RSS feed. So people who listen on Spotify, anyone who puts it in their their ears and they go for a walk, okay? >> We'll the retention on those guys is way better. And we'll mention something a minute 45 and I'll have people come up to me on the street and like ask me about that and it doesn't seem whereas the clip people are a little bit more fly by.

47:24 >> A lot of bit more fly fly. >> A lot a lot more. Like for example, Sean's like, "Oh, you got you got to watch this podcast. It's so good. Dude, these guys are so funny. And I'm like, you listen to this? He goes, no, no, no, no. But I I um and so like >> shout out to the basement yard boys. >> Huge fan. Never listen to the show. Love the clips. >> And so like but and as someone like doing this for a living, I'm like, I don't like that.

47:45 You know what I mean? >> I I totally know what you mean. And you know, this conversation with people actually making long form content is can be a little hard because you guys think of the product as the full show, >> but you're like, we're outdated. >> That's a phrase. It's like never ask a man for his opinion when his salary depends on the answer.

48:01 It's like kind of that. >> Yeah. I mean, I think like RSS feed also is a very outdated technology that advertisers don't like because it's extremely hard to measure. Like you're giving download numbers and they're like >> we don't that doesn't help. >> You're giving impression numbers. What's the difference? >> Well, you can give impression numbers very specifically.

48:22 But the thing about download numbers is like you don't know who is listening to the ad when and for how long. But for impressions, you actually know how many people >> I guarantee your impression is a scroll on Twitter. They don't you don't know if they're actually watching to the 30 second mark or whatever of that clip either. >> That that that is true.

48:38 Um the but the thing about video also is that the clips get re-shared again and again and again and again in a way that is like you know >> I'm a believer in clips. There's no doubt obviously clips is what people consume a lot of because that's what we all do. So tell me like you know you're doing this business you you have these customers. Sounds like you already got a bunch of major media companies.

49:00 >> Mhm. >> But you're in the venture game. How much have you raised so far? >> So we raised uh a little over $2 million. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So we raised this. So we went through Y cominator raise that seed round. >> So give me the napkin math. How does this become massive? What what do I need to believe? >> Mhm. >> What's every business has like a value equation, right?

49:17 So you're going to need X number of customers paying you Y dollars a month to give you Z, you know, net revenue or whatever your total. the desired like outcome in terms of net revenue like what is how do you define >> what was winning to you? >> So you know our view is that as agents get so good at making and posting video content it actually eats up the amount that's spent on digital advertising.

49:42 So about $90 billion a year goes towards meta and YouTube and Tik Tok ads and those people are paying for eyeballs. Our view is actually that like a lot of that spending is going to migrate to organic content and it's going to migrate to paying agents for performance. And so, you know, for us, like, you know, the TAM of like video editing software or the labor budgets of video editing software, that's in the tens of billions, but quickly by next year, it'll be in the hundreds of billions in terms of how many people or

50:16 how many brands are going to spend the amount of money to acquire. >> Instead of paying, your bet is instead of buying ads, people are just going to make their own organic content and it's going to be good and go viral and help someone make money through selling stuff or selling ads. >> Correct. I mean, it's what we've already seen. Like we've seen a lot of customers allocate their digital ad budget to using Overlap and whether that's paying on a CPM basis rather or that's paying for the software.

50:40 Um we're a big believer that like and you guys know this better than anyone but like every company to a certain extent becomes a digital media company um and starts investing in content and you don't necessarily even need to make content in this type of setting. You can literally just have people talking at a camera and your agent can make it good content and post.

51:05 >> How does my How does your agent do that? >> Well, you can have someone talk to the camera and then put in a video or have the agent go get the video and then it could put in graphics. It can put in B-roll. It can understand like for this company account, what type of copy works really well and it can go post it every single, you know, a version of it every single week.

51:25 You have this energy of the guy at the poker table who's got a winning hand. Yep. Posture. The way you answer the questions. You're very you're very good at that. But that's not that fun. Uh in the sense of like what is unfigured out? What's the real what you know? You're an entrepreneur. There's no way it's all just Yep. We got it. Monopoly coming soon.

51:44 You know, there's obviously going to be you know there's obviously stuff that you're trying to figure out right now. What are you trying to figure out? We're figuring out I mean there's a whole bunch of things that you're figuring out as you guys know about building when you're building a business hiring the right people um like hiring the right go to market people hiring the right kind of people with the right engineering >> you're but that's not that hard for you like you just need like good enterprise sales people.

52:07 No, it is hard. Well, it's it's hard from the perspective of um hiring people who know how to speak to old school media people and kind of new savvy dig. >> I just don't think that that is that hard. >> Give us what's the burning question like what are you actually trying to figure out? >> I mean, we've I we've kind of cracked a little bit of like product market fit in that sense and right now we're we're kind of in growth mode.

52:33 >> Getting pulled. >> We're getting pulled a lot. >> Did you do something to get pulled? You just had the right idea. What did you figure out? A go to market motion like what' you do? >> So go to market motion where we like actually use the product ourselves to clip and they're brand they're all branded overlaps. No, they're not cuz you guys were clipping our podcast for us or something.

52:51 Somebody was doing that. >> Probably it was the AI agent who was doing that. >> From an outside it seems like the big bet is the CPM thing or the SAS thing. That seems like a pretty like >> that that is one of the biggest questions and I think for the big media companies it's it's always going to be the SAS. They don't want to pay >> basically because my margin doesn't keep improving if I have to keep paying you a percent of >> Exactly.

53:12 Exactly. But for a lot of the creators um and a lot of the like smaller creator folks like that is way better. >> Yeah. Because they can't afford six six figures a year. >> They can't afford six figures a year. Um but also it's um they can actually do but how do they get CPM money to pay you? Like if they're like like we don't we don't make money on clips at all.

53:34 Most people I would think don't make money clips on >> off. Well, so you know an example of like one of the recent CPM deals that we've done is like do you guys know uh James Ston the like divorce lawyer celebrity divorce like he's on a ton of podcast >> seen his clips >> probably overlap clips but what you know he's launching like a legal tech business and like selling like some sort of prenup.

53:55 >> It's like the guys who go on and they're basically like hey we just want to just make me famous. I'll give you $3 CPM make me famous. >> Well there's that. Yeah, there's there's that which is kind of like makes our product like relevancy as a service, like relevancy on the timeline, but then there's there's a guy like uh James who who knows that like a certain amount of eyeballs >> will convert to a certain amount of revenue.

54:16 And so this is a cheaper, more effective version, >> lawyer billboards, >> lawyer billboards or running meta ads. >> And then you also just have to make sure that like your clipping is way better than Opal or Opus, whatever it's called. And then the 10,000 other ones that are going to eventually come out or duct tape people like me%. So drop some wisdom on us, right?

54:35 If you're if you're somebody is a founder listening to this, what's a golden nugget, a business insight, a a insight from you about the way you're bu building overlap that they can steal, they can take and they can do maybe something you don't you you think you guys have done a really good job of that maybe others do just okay or they don't even do at all.

54:53 I think on the enterprise sales side, understanding and what I don't think I understood until I started having some success with enterprise sales is that the people who are buying your product are thinking about their job first and foremost. And then how do you get those people to uh to get promoted? Like basically you're selling here's how I'm going to get you promoted.

55:19 >> That's particularly true in advertising. When I used to own a company that made money on advertising, we would close seven figure deals >> and they the way the buy I would thought like, oh, I just tell them that like if they spend this much, they're going to make this much money. That makes sense. I'm a business owner. It's all I give a about. And then and that pitch never worked.

55:35 It was like whining and dining worked. And making them say like, you have this budget. You have to spend it. Spend it with me. It's safe. >> Totally. The thing about it is it's like trust is like is that it's is that's what's really important is >> way more than ROI. Totally. It's trust and being like, you know, will I help you get promoted? And like we have.

55:56 >> So to do that, you need to know what metrics they get measured on. Exactly. >> And make sure they hit their metrics and give it to them in a way that they can easily share so that it's clearly visible that they're hitting their metrics. >> And a VP at a company, they're getting evaluated on not the revenue and profitability of this this what's it called?

56:15 Cover my ass or >> Yeah. C businesses. >> Yeah. Like that's why people buy Gartner. Uh yeah, I to yeah that was my huge learning running an ad business. I was like this doesn't make sense. >> All they do is they take them out. It's like this is why like companies have like box seats you know like season passes. What was the valuation of that $2 million round?

56:35 >> Uh the so um the valuation of the $2 million round was$2 million >> and also can we still invest at the$2 million? We could talk about that, >> you know. Uh, it was a shoot your shot where we shoot our shot with the entrepreneurs. >> And can we get the software for free? >> Dude, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me, Brett. This was great.

56:58 You know, longtime listener, first- time caller. So, great to meet you guys in person. >> Thank you. We appreciate you. >> All right, that's it. >> All right, that's a wrap for San Francisco. We had nine 10 founders come in, everyone from a million to 100 million. And uh that was a good time. That was a lot of fun. We had great founders come. We've already done this in New York.

57:16 Now, this was SF. But we need more cities to go to. So, go to Spotify, go to YouTube, wherever you listen or watch and let us know in the comments. Whichever gets the most most up votes, the most replies, the most comments, we'll actually go to that city. So, stop what you're doing right now and go do that. >> And if you want to be on the show, reach out to Ben. Ben Levy. Find him if you want to be on the show the next time we go to a different city. All right, we're out of here.