The Most Hands-Off $192K/M Business Anyone Can Copy Transcript, AI Summary & Key Points

00:00 We finished the month 1925 last month. Holy crap.  In one month. Yeah. Most of the sites are things like the Irving one where they're just sitting.  I don't do anything. It's literally passive. The bigger ones are the ones I'm kind of on top  of more because those are worth hundreds of thousands per site. So that I'm like watching a  little bit heavier.

00:14 I'm looking at it as like, do you have to? No. I could just go chill and do  nothing, but I would lose my mind. So I have to do something and that's what I choose to spend  it on. At a certain point I'm like passive is cool. you know, four or five grand coming in from  that site. I love that. But like if I can make 30 or 40 off that site, you got to make it worth my  while.

00:31 So over 90% net profit margins. How many hours per week are you spending on this on this?  Two or three, man. I'm fired up to do this myself. I'm the guy that's just supposed to ask questions  about it. I'm like, "Oh jeez, shiny object, man. It's It's rough. It's rough. I know. It's real.  It's very real. Is this a good thing to do on the side?" I love it as a side hustle idea because  there's lots of people that have walked away from jobs doing exactly this.

00:56 I know three people that  have made more than a million bucks just since 2022 with doing this on the side of what they're  doing. Eventually quit, but like that's insane. So yeah, now I love it as a side hustle and it's  way better than any of the ones I tried. And then in terms of like renting sites out, it's really  not that hard. I'm literally just calling the person and saying, "Hey, I've got customers that  want this.

01:15 I'm like, if I send you some people, can we work out a cut?" And the majority of  people will say, "Yeah, cool. That sounds great." Yeah. So, what should someone's first  step be for getting involved with this business? Why don't you start by telling us who you are  and what you do? My name is Luke Vander and I rent websites, lead generation websites to  businesses.

01:35 What got you into that? Like, what led you there? I had a job, an HR job, and  I did not like it. And I was searching for ways to quit. And I tried all these different side  hustles, selling on eBay, selling on Amazon, drop shipping, affiliate marketing. I paid for a  course and learned Facebook ads. I tried to create a Facebook agency. Actually made some money  with that.

01:54 Then my last attempt here before I kind of pivoted was an SEO agency. Started  running an agency, pick up a bunch of clients, but it just turned into another job. It made  more money, but I didn't want to be working all the time. I wanted to build something upfront and  then try to make it more somewhat passive so that I wouldn't have to be there grinding it out in  an office for 45 years or whatever.

02:14 I just don't agree with that thing that society pushes. So,  I was running an SEO agency, not for very long, under a year. I just had a client call me in the  middle of the night complaining about his results, which were stellar, and it really made me mad. And  I woke up the next day and I just shut it down. And I was thinking about it and I'm like, I don't  know how do I remove his control or take back the control.

02:40 And the only way I could think of was if  I own the asset because then he can't tell me what to do. So I was like, okay, I'll just build stuff  and all the niches I'm already in with clients, fire all of them and I'll just rent the site out  and then if somebody doesn't want to deal with it, I got 50 other people I could rent the  site to. I guess in other other industries, you might call this vertical integration.

02:56 Correct me if and or where I go wrong. Like yeah, you develop all these SEO skills. They're very  valuable. Yeah. You're implementing them for other people. It's working well for them, but you  feel like I own a job. I don't own a business. I'm still kind of working hourly. I only get out what  I what I put in. This doesn't feel much better. It doesn't feel like as free as I thought it would  feel.

03:17 So, like, why drive all these results for other people when I can just vertically integrate,  have my own websites, drive results for myself, and make this more passive, more scalable,  right? Yeah. I don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner. It just had that like trigger  and it just made me so mad. I was like, I don't I'm like, how do I get rid of this guy?

03:35 I just need to remove all of these people. Like, how do I make them like change the dynamic? And  that was the only thing I could think of. But it worked. Yeah. So, I was like, okay, let's  just keep doing this. Yeah. It's kind of like a friend of mine, he had a Facebook ad agency  for uh Shopify brands, for e-commerce brands, and he got really, really good at turning $1 into  five, specifically driving people to Shopify sites to buy physical goods.

03:59 Yeah. And then he's like,  "Why don't I launch a Shopify brand?" Like that's the hardest part is finding customers. I can  find customers, right? And he did, you know, and now he he's vertically integrated. Um he makes  more money. So yeah, it's always definitely for like higher level uses of the skill set which  is kind of Yes. You know, taken me into other things.

04:16 So I I love So you fired all your clients  like you woke up, had this realization and said, "I can't help you anymore." Or what? One's a  friend. I kept him. Everybody else went. I was just like, "I'm not doing this anymore. Here's  some other people you could use. I'm done." How much of like an immediate revenue or income  hit was that to you? It was 108,000 just gone.

04:36 Okay. A year. Yeah. Wow. And did you have like had  you started already building websites before you you did this or you started with a clean slate?  Nope. I just stopped. I'm not going to say it was the smartest move. It probably was not. But I was  just confident in what I was doing. I was like, I can get results for them. I can get results for  myself.

04:51 Screw it. So, I just did it. Yeah. Well, you burned the boats and like we're able to look  back and say it was a good decision because we haven't gotten to the numbers yet, but I assume  just by nature of you being on this podcast, it's worked out well for you. So, it was a  good decision. And had you like kept, you know, in my church, we say one foot in Zion, one foot  in Babylon.

05:09 You straddled the fence for a while. You may have never like felt enough pressure to  go all in and to actually make this work. You may be worse off today had you hedged your bets a  little more. This is true. This is true. Yeah. So, you fire everyone except your friend, which makes  sense. What do you What do you do? What What are your first steps?

05:28 I just started building sites in  all the niches as already in. So, I built a towing site in like Well, I can share one of them because  I shut it down. Yeah, please. Oh, towing site in Woodside, Queens. Um, another towing site in a  different area, an HVAC, a limo, an electrical, how many was that? One more. I'm missing one. And  a tree service. And just started ranking all of them, all six at the same time.

05:48 It took two, three  months to get them relatively close to like bottom page one. Got the Google My Businesses and all  that stuff set up. Leads are coming in and then it was like, okay, now I got to furiously rent all  these out. Rent out, rent out, rent out. Started calling people and renting these. And then I'm  right back to where I was with the same income.

06:06 I'm like, ah, okay, problem solved. Same income,  much more passive though, right? Yes. Yeah. That was so cool. I'm like, I don't know what to do  with myself now. I love the story of the first thing because there's a lot to learn there. I  just Googled it. Woodside is a neighborhood in Queens. Yeah. Yeah. 60,000 people, give or take.  What told you to go to Woodside?

06:22 What signal did you see? There wasn't any kind of special reason  for that one. That was just somebody I had my car parked outside my apartment and somebody smashed  it so hard with like a garbage truck or something it knocked it onto the curb and just destroyed it.  And I had to call the towing company up the street and uh I was just talking to that guy and he's  like, "Yeah, I don't know where these leads come from."

06:48 He's like, "We occasionally get one like  this. This is good, but I don't know how to do this." And I was like, "What towing in Woodside  sounds like going to be some demand here. I can rent to this guy." And that's exactly what you  did once I got the site up. Man, that story is so representative of what normally happens in the  business building experience.

07:02 Like you solve a problem for yourself. you see something nearby  that gives you a data point that says there's demand here and the statistician in me would say  ah it's a sample size of one you can't trust that but for whatever it is something out there in  the universe is just like screaming that to you and usually that one data point is carries the  weight of so much more than one does that make sense and you said you shut it down and I want  to get into that but it doesn't matter because it gave you an I'm assuming

07:33 it gave you enough  traction to keep going. What was the life cycle of that website like? How did it go? And then why  did it get shut down? That particular one was it took two and a half months or so to rank. The the  organic piece was a little bit slower. The map was like number one instantly. I didn't even have to  do anything to it. I just put it up number one.

07:54 It was called Woodside Towing. That's the city.  So, I kind of hijacked the keyword and it was instantly number one. Nobody else in the general  area, the towing companies there had any kind of SEO skills or anything just from kind of googling  around. So that was a major advantage and it just started getting calls 30 40 calls a month which  was enough to get 600 700 bucks and I was like all right cool.

08:14 So I rented it out to that guy and  it was good for a while. Um but as I was doing the other sites and things the GMBB got suspended  for some reason. Google business profile. Right. Right. Back then Google my business. Right. Right.  And once that one went, you know, the lead volume, there was still some coming in organically, but  for that particular niche, a lot of people are calling the map.

08:33 They're not gonna they're not  going in to like do a quote form. They're calling directly off mobile. Yep. It pretty much tanked  it. And I was like, "All right, forget it." So, I just shut it down. Now, when you say renting it  out, how exactly did that look? Did you find that one guy that you called and he's like, "I don't  know where these come from."

08:48 And you started like, "How did it work? How did you charge him?" When  he picked up my trashed car, I was just asking him like, "How often does this happen?" Then he  was like, "Where do you get the leads from?" And just asking questions and it just brought out  like, "Dude, I don't know. Stuff just randomly comes in. I don't have any control over it.

09:05 I've gotten screwed 17 times by other agencies, whatever. So, I just let it go. Whatever refers  to me is cool." And I was like, "Okay, cool. I'll come back to this guy." So, I just ranked it.  And then I called him back and I'm like, "Hey, I'm the guy that had the thrashed car." I'm like,  "I got those leads for you." And he's like, "Okay, so how much is it going to be?"

09:23 And I'm like,  "How about 700 bucks?" He's like, "For how many?" I'm like, "I don't know, 30, 40 calls." I'm like,  "How many of those you going to close?" He's like, "4 50%." He's like, "All right, cool. Yeah, let's  do it." Sweet. That's it. So, I just routed it to him. I'm trying to do the numbers here. So, let's  say 20 closes a month. What does a toe cost?

09:36 Is few hundred bucks. Couple hundred bucks. Yeah. I  mean, so we're talking like he's paying 700 to get back like three to $5,000. Yeah. So, it's a solid  ROI for him. New revenue. Yeah, believe it or not, just because you're watching this doesn't mean  you're subscribed to my channel. YouTube's going to show you stuff even if you're not subscribed to  it.

09:56 Over half of people that watch my videos are not subscribed. It would mean the world to me if  you just hit subscribe. Thank you so much. Okay, so you just charged a flat monthly fee. It was  looking like 30 to 40 calls a month. And sometimes it gets a little less, sometimes it gets a little  more. You charge them that until it starts dying. Okay. One thing that I love about this business  is how much surface area there is.

10:16 So there are tens of thousands just in the United States.  Yeah. Okay. We'll only focus on that. Of not just cities, but neighborhoods. Insane. Tens  of thousands. Let's be conservative and let's say there's 10,000 worth like ranking for. Okay.  And then let's be conservative and say there's only a thousand services out there, which I  know there's more.

10:36 Let's say home services, towing, local businesses. Let's say,000. That's 10  million like service plus geography variations. 10 million woodside towing.com, Greenville gutter  cleaning.com, like whatever it is, Greenville, Texas, Greenville, South Carolina, Greenville,  whatever. And so with 10 million opportunities out there, there's a lot of room for everyone  and there's a lot of opportunity for there to be more demand than supply in any given geography  and or service, right?

11:03 Oh yeah. You have to find something. The goal is to try to find something  that's not a red ocean, right? Like everybody from the outside, people talk about all the same  things. They'll go they'll try to talk concrete, roofing, plumbing. You could do those.  It's not that you can't get results there, but why would I compete against 50 companies when  I can find the random one in the middle of nowhere that has no competition?

11:27 That's going to be more  passive. So, let's go for that. Yeah. Okay. So, your first was Woodside Towing. What were your  other five or six? It was towing. Boing, HVAC, limo, uh, tree service, and pest control. Okay.  Now, you probably quickly learned that you liked some of these either services or geographies more,  uh, than others. What did you learn and why?

11:43 I learned that smaller cities were generally easier  simply because there wasn't as much competition. Define small. 60,000 to like 300 400,000 under  500,000. Safe bet. Mhm. I didn't want to do like Manhattan. Like I'm not going to do 2 million  people. Like I looked at towing. That was one of the things I Googled and I was like, there's  87 companies.

12:05 There's no way I'm going to compete well with that. You know, got just too much work  for the payoff. Yeah. I think it's also important to note like demographics and like social, you  know, cultural things because Greenville, Texas has 60,000 people, but the market for towing is  probably a small fraction of the market for towing in Woodside, Queens.

12:27 It's completely different,  right? So, you can't automatically take that logic and say, "Dude, I'm I'm going to put any city of  60,000. I'm going to put that plus towing.com." It won't always work like that. Not just because  of, you know, cultural trends and societal things, but supply and demand. Greenville, Texas, might  already have five sites doing the exact same thing.

12:47 Right. Right. So, you're typically looking  at the search results trying to figure out like, is this a good spot to go into? Combination  of things on the maps and organic to see like, okay, what are my chances on this one? Okay. So  that's what you learned about like the size of the city. Did you learn anything about the industry  that you that you choose or did that not matter as much?

13:06 The industry didn't matter as much. The  industry affected the conversation with the people when you're trying to rent the site out. That was  the thing that was a little bit different because the towing person I typically got the owner. The  limo service you get the secretary and then you can't you got to get through the secretary or the  gatekeeper to get to the owner.

13:20 So that was more of a pain. The HVAC was similar. Pest control, I  got the owner. Tree service, I got the owner. So, it's like, okay, now I have to try to pick  things where there's enough companies that are small enough where the company's in the right  range where I'm going to get the decision maker on the phone easier. Otherwise, I got to like  walk in, which I've had to do before for some of the sites and find somebody.

13:44 You probably have  a higher close rate when you're there in person at least. 100%. So, what are some what are some  services where you're most likely to get the owner on the phone? Like towing, tree service is a good  one. Pest control is okay. HVAC's not. Plumbing's not. What about landscaping? Just like guys mowing  lawns. Landscaping is okay. Landscaping you can get some owners.

14:05 I've got a couple landscapings.  Okay. As long as they're doing landscape design and not just like mowing because it's not it's  not worth enough. It's like doing a site for like cuts. I'd have to generate 8,000 leads to  be paid anything. Yeah. So, it sounds like the sweet spot is the fine balance between high ticket  and owner cell phone number publicly available.

14:27 Right. Right. Because lawnmowing is low ticket,  owner cell phone number available, but it's too low ticket. Towing is right there in that sweet  spot. Something like dentistry, very high ticket, but you're not going to get dentist. So, then the  only way you do that one is if you know somebody then you got a nick. But if you get the dentist,  you could probably sell those leads a lot more.

14:46 That's like the gold standard. It's like if that's  your buddy or you got colleagues or somebody can introduce you to somebody and you have that  intro, then cool. Or like yeah, pre-ell the idea up front, then I'm cool with those. Okay. So,  what month was this when you first started this? What month and year? February 19th, 2016. My mom's  birthday.

14:59 Okay. 10 plus years ago. All right. Now, what did that first year look like? How many  sites did you add? What was your revenue like, etc.? I don't know how many sites I added. I was  doing a lot, multiple a week. The first six sites just replaced it got me right back to basically  where I was around that a little over 100,000 mark. 9,000 or something a month.

15:18 9500 from your  first six sites. Yeah, because they're all Wow. a lot. Yeah, because you said you replaced your  income with that. Okay. Just six, which was cool. So, that was nice. What tools were you using to  build these sites at the time? Originally Weebly just because it was a easy drag and drop builder.  There's I think Wix was a thing, but I didn't the the interface wasn't intuitive.

15:40 Weebly felt more  intuitive. And what do you use today? WordPress. Okay. Is the exact match domain name important for  this? I would heavily recommend it. It's going to make it a lot easier, especially for a beginner.  So, geography plus service.com, that's the formula if you can. Yeah. But it doesn't have to like,  you know, if I did the Woodside towing thing, maybe woodside towing is not available.

16:02 I could  do woodside towing pros. I still got the keyword and the city in it. So, I'm still going to get the  same kind of effect. What are some examples of um domain names where you've gone kind of outside  of that pattern and it still worked? Well, I don't generally I'll do like a net before. I'll  throw in other words, but let's say like Irving carpets instead of Irving Irving carpet cleaning.

16:21 Like I've done some niches that like city and then a plural like carpets and like that's not really  a keyword, but it was close enough where I got the hit from the city relevance and the hit from  the topical relevance of the item. Okay. How much weight would you say like the name/domain name  carries with regards to your success versus like everything else that you have to do?

16:44 5 10%. Okay.  I think it just makes it easier up front. You get results a little bit faster because you have that  branded it takes a little bit longer but you know long term if you're trying to sell it then you'll  get a higher multiple with a brand. If you're trying to just keep it it doesn't matter. Okay.  And a brand would be like you're generating leads in multiple geographies for one service under like  a key brand name, not just like the name of the city.

17:11 Yeah. Okay. Are you doing that at all? Yeah.  What niche is that in? Concrete. There's several, but concrete's one I don't care about sharing.  Everybody tries concrete. Yeah. What made you pick that? Just the combo of high ticket, low  competition. It was another thing where it's just I knew it was worth a lot, so I was like, "All  right, well, let's just give it a shot and see."

17:31 And after yeah good results with the first  few sites I was like it's an easy thing to write about. I know a ton about it now from all  the googling and trying to do the research on it and whatever. Like how hard could it be to spin  up a few more of these? So just sort of throwing them up all over the place. So are those under  different names or is it all under one company name?

17:49 There's one LLC and then there's you  know DBAs across a million places to have okay, you know, map listings and organic under it. Okay.  It's not like Lukeconrete.com with like locations in a bunch of cities. It's like city name concrete  other city name concrete and that's all under one umbrella. Yes. Yes. So if the namedomain name is  5 to 10% what is the other 90% of finding success here?

18:12 The the content is a huge piece. I think  people underestimate how important that is. The content of the site is like the foundation of a  house. And if it's not strong, it's like building a house on sand. you're not going to make any  money and it's going to make it so much harder to work to like rank it. If the content's really  really strong, sometimes a site will just rank without a single link.

18:29 So, that is my goal. Every  time I launch one, like how good can I make this? So, I will process for that. I'll go look out  at all the competitors in that niche. I'll see what they're talking about and I'm just going to  double, triple, quadruple whatever they're doing and I'll make sure I'm including, you know,  commercial and transactional keywords.

18:44 So, it's not just like a Wikipedia, but whatever.  I'm blowing them away. like they have their, you know, three bullet points on the item. I have  a thousand words on the item every time for all services and they have no chance. So then if all  else is equal, I win. So when it comes to content, if you had to choose between quantity and quality,  you would choose quantity.

19:04 I would choose quality. But I'm doing both. I'm doing quantity with  quality. I guess I'm saying like more content, more articles, more blogs on one website. I  don't care about had to choose. I don't care blocks. I'm talking like website structure,  home about content, contact page, and then service pages for every service. Like right now,  if you just went and Googled a lot of places, it doesn't matter what the niche or city is.

19:30 You'll see a lot of companies that don't have service pages. They'll have a a page with like a  bulletoint list of what they do, like a roofer, it'll say like roof repair, roof installation, you  know, roof inspection, but they don't have a page for it. And if you don't have a separate page  for it, you're basically telling Google, I do all this, but Google's like, well, all right, like  I don't believe you.

19:46 Which one's more important? Like what? You're just confusing it. But if you  had a need more, you're like, "Oh, okay. So, you do roof repair in this spot." Cool. Okay. What  else do you do? You need all the specific things and people don't do it. Are you able to show your  concrete site to share your screen? I'll show a carpet cleaning one. I I picked I use this one as  my example because it's the lowest paying one.

20:06 So, if somebody kills it, spams it, whatever, I don't  care. Okay. Okay. And are you using AI to generate any content? my VAS do it. So, they'll use it  and then kind of uh humanedit it and then send it over for a quick scan to make sure it's uh  Okay. Okay. What model or tool do they use to do that? I don't micromanage, so I'm not exactly  sure. I'm pretty sure it's clawed because it's like two schools of thought.

20:34 Some people are like,  you can't just make art content with AI. And then the other school of thought is like people need  their questions answered. So, all else equal, like a good well-written human content is better.  But for a lot of categories, there's nothing. There's not enough. So even AI written is better  than nothing. This is true. Creators are moving their podcast to Beehive.

20:52 And I want to tell  you why. So if you're running a newsletter on one platform and a podcast on another, that's two  dashboards and two subscriber lists that didn't even know the other one existed. But Beehive will  host podcast natively now. And you can import your show in minutes. So every time you drop an  episode, your email list will get notified.

21:10 or when someone finds the podcast, they can just  join the newsletter from the same page. Also, you can sell digital products and coaching sessions  through Beehive and pay 0% commissions on all of it. Then you just connect everything to Claude  through Beehive's MCP tool. Not as confusing as it sounds, and Claude will see your real engagement  data and help you plan content around what your audience actually clicks on.

21:32 One platform,  everything connected, nothing skimmed off the top. That's beehive.com/chris. Use code Chris30  for 30% off your first three months. And also, they're not telling anyone what it is yet, but  Beehive's summer release event is on July 16th, and it's worth clearing your calendar for. So,  RSVP for that at beehive.com/summer-release-2026. So, like this is one of the first sites.

21:55 I haven't touched this thing in years. So, there's probably there's actually a lot of stuff  I would change, but basic idea still stands, right? It's got the city and the niche right  in the name.com phone number in a big easy spot. Click the call button. If you look at it on  mobile, you know what you do and a way to contact you is immediately apparent.

22:14 And then there's two  options. I see people do something with, you know, they'll have like a phone number or a quote form,  but never they don't always have both, which doesn't make sense. The thing I've learned with  this is some people don't want to call you. Some people don't want to talk right now. They're just  like, "No, I'd rather just be a little bit more passive and get a quote this way."

22:31 So this grabs  those people, but then other people are like, I need something now. Cat just peed on the floor.  That's the person that calls that. So you got to have both. And then it'll just be a lot of stuff  like, you know, reasons to trust us. And look, I'm looking different keywords. So you carpet  cleaning is the one I want, which was up here.

22:48 We got a variation down here. And then going  into some of the other services that are part of the carpet cleaning umbrella. You know, the GMBB  thing went down for this, too, like years ago. But it just doesn't it doesn't matter at this point.  It won't die. No, it's it's still sitting there. Number one, you can probably search it. It'll  probably come up and then just pages for each of the items.

23:06 So, a lot of companies won't do this.  They'll just have like a bulletoint list of these, you know, five, six things. That's it. That's not  helpful to Google. Yeah. I just Googled carpet cleaning Irving, Texas, and you're you're number  one. Yeah. Cool. I'm like 45 minutes from Irving, so this is very relevant to me. Yeah. I try to  pick spots like that.

23:20 You can you take this skill, you can apply it to anything. So, it's kind of  like shiny object syndrome. You got to watch that because it's really it's really tough. If you  could do it for anything, you're like, "Oh my god, I could do it on this. I could do it on that."  It's really hard to block all that out and to try to pick stuff, but you got to be really rigorous  like, "Okay, this one looks good."

23:36 And follow the process and try to pick something that's going  to be easy so it stays like that because like I don't want to sit here and like do content or have  to keep managing links and all these things. So, how long has this site been up? May 2017, 18  somewhere around there. And how much has it made lifetime would you guess? It's been rented at 500  bucks a month.

23:57 So whatever that is times however many months it's been 50 grand. I mean geez  something like that. Yeah. And your cost on that has been 10 bucks a month. Probably less because  it's shared hosting across the or like the cloud plan with a million other sites. Has it been the  same person that you're selling these leads to the whole time? Yeah. Well, they probably love you.

24:15 They're probably making way more than that or they would have churned by now. They're just I find  this with a lot of these. there's really not much churn. I think part of it is it's sticky because  organic is just better. The leads are just better. I've run ads before it's it's higher intent.  And the person from the customer's perspective, right?

24:37 Think about them. They search like, you  know, carpet cleaning, whatever. They see a billion results they can pick from. You're like,  who do you pick? They're assuming that the person that's number one, Google must have put them there  for a reason. Now, we know that I just manipulated it to get there, but they don't know that. They  assume like, oh, well, Google must know.

24:51 So, they just trust in Google and choose the first  one. And studies support that, which is cool. So, those leads are just better. Are there certain  niches that you would recommend people never touch? Yeah. Okay. Elevator repair. There's  one. Don't touch that. That was what I had a I had a client do it in uh New York City. They're  ranking number one for that and we're getting all kinds of leads.

25:16 went to rent out the site and I'm  like, "Wow, this was an easy one. Never thought of this." We found out that the elevator companies  do really long-term contracts and then they charge you hefty fees to break the contract. So, even  though people wanted to switch to save money, they wouldn't actually do it because they'd have  to pay so much to get out of it.

25:30 So, we couldn't rent out the site. So, they weren't high intent  searchers. Yeah. They they just they would not break the contracts because it cost so much. Yeah.  And like you wouldn't know that unless you called people ahead of time, which you're probably not  going to do. Yeah. Any other niches that are stay away from? Jet rental. I did that one.

25:49 That was  pretty cool. I had Lux private jet rental. Jets. Yeah. I had a site that was crushing it for that.  It was bringing a lot of stuff, but I had a person who was taking the leads and he was essentially a  jet broker because I couldn't get the jet owner. So he was trying to like middleman it oh sell  those leads and it's like a middleman on top of a middleman.

26:11 So it was kind of pain. And then once  he kind of fizzled out because he started trying to just jack up the prices of some insane thing  and try to get like a a money one on just one shot. And I was like dude you're just wasting my  leads now. But then I couldn't really find anybody else to do that with. Yeah. So that's like another  one there. There's some that just you know not every one of these is going to work out.

26:29 You know  it's okay. But um yeah, I took a shot on some big ones like that just to see because it was it would  have been worth a lot. If we were to call this like a supply and demand marketplace, the demand  side being the number of business owners willing to buy these leads and the supply side being the  number of leads that you're actually generating.

26:47 Yeah. Which is harder for you? Finding someone to  buy the leads or actually generating the leads? I think it's finding a buyer, finding the right  buyer because there's tons of people who will give it a shot, but people that are serious and that  have the right mindset much harder to find. Yeah, there's a lot of people who are just like, "Oh,  yeah.

27:01 I work entirely off referrals." And then I'm like, "Okay, well, you know, thousand bucks."  And they're like, "Housand dollars." And I'm like, "Dude, you're gonna make 20 grand just off the  revenue on these few that just came in." Like they don't even if the math makes sense, they  still don't always go with it. So, it's like not logical. It's like an emotional thing for them.

27:18 They're prideful about it. Yeah. Do you give them leads for free to capture them or does that not  work? I generally do it for a few days. I don't want to go more than that because to the core I  believe free has no value. So I have a hard time doing this to begin with because I'm like I'm I  did work to get this and now you're just taking it and blowing it.

27:38 So I give them it for a few days  and then we'll see how they respond and I'm just kind of watching like first off the people that  I'm going for people who are already paying for ads. I'm not just going to Google a random person.  I'm looking for people who are actively spending money. rely on Facebook ads. I don't care what  it is, but I want to see that they're investing in themselves because at least they already  have the mindset.

27:54 And then once I know that, okay, I know something about them. I'll give them  a shot at this. One of the questions I'll ask is, are you like, how soon are you going to follow  up with the customer? Like, here's this person, they want this now. Like, how soon can you get  to them? And if they tell me today and they don't call today, they're done. I'll just find  another one.

28:10 I'm like, I need to trust them and they need to communicate with me and it needs to  be professional. Sometimes I'll just call them, shadow call, see what happens. And when they pick  up the phone, hello. Like a secret shopper. Yeah. It's like you're not a business owner. Answer the  phone like a business professionally or you're out too. So I just have a list of things like if  they do this, you're done immediately to the next one to try to find the right person because once  you do, then you don't have to touch it.

28:30 Yeah. So do you use like the meta ads library to see  who's advertising on Meta and then to see who's advertising on Google? You just Google that. You  just like literally Google it as if you're looking for it. Okay. Yep. And I'll just look for people  that are interesting because like sometimes it's Google, you'll Google somebody, it'll be like a  national company.

28:48 I don't want that either because I don't want some call center. I want a local  person who's trying to run ads. Okay. If you build a site, let's say it's, you know, uh, greenville  towing.com. You build that on July 1st. How long do you wait before trying to find a buyer for the  leads? Do you want to see leads come in first or what? I don't know, a couple months.

29:08 Okay. You let  it simmer and Yeah. Like I've gone back and forth on this. I don't have really a set rule for this  one. I have a VA that does the kind of outreach now, so I don't really have to do anything. Two  months or so, something will start coming in and then I'll have them looking for somebody to at  least start testing the waters anyways. Like, hey, you know, we got something cooking here.

29:25 Would  you be open to this if we sent you some stuff, like just get a cut and I'll try to do like a  referral or commission thing up front and then immediately flip it to flat fee when I see  them close some things. But then I'll like I'll test them because I don't trust them. So,  I'll call the customers and pretend I'm doing a satisfaction survey and see if they actually  went with that person, how much they charged, and if the stuff lines up with what the business  owner is telling me.

29:46 How many of your deals are revshare versus flat fee? Vast majority are flat  fee. Revshare is just something I done recently. I was out in Vegas on uh dropping bombs with  Brad Lee and he was talking about Revshare and like after we got off the pod and I was like,  "Oh my god, why didn't I think of this?" So, I came home and I immediately started doing rev  share.

30:08 I reached out to my highest paying clients, like the bigger flat fees, four or five  grand a month clients, and I was like, I got a way I can get you more leads, but I want  to change the structure of how we're doing this. And just pitched a bunch of them on Revshare. And  immediately started doing that. And my income went way up because it was just at a certain point  I'm like, passive is cool.

30:25 You know, four or five grand coming in from that site. I love that.  But like if I can make 30 or 40 off that site, I'll throw in a few more GMBBS and do some other  things to get this going. But you got to make it worth my while, which was the red, which made a  huge huge difference. What percentage do you take? 20%. Okay. Just off the top, the gross revenue.

30:44 It'll depend on the niche though cuz like Okay, I got a landscaping one. That one I can't that one's  net because the gross it's weird to like try to calculate that because they had so much materials  and all these things. So, I like I it depends on the niche whether I'm going gross or net. And then  if it's gross, it's lower. If it's net, it's going to be higher.

31:04 And you really have to have a high  level of trust with that. The business owner has to have a high level of trust in you to want to do  this because you're taking a significant portion of what they're doing. Oh, yeah. How do you trust  them or know that they're closing what they say they're closing and that their margins are what  they say they are?

31:17 I'm asking for read access to their CRM and their payment system like QuickBooks  or HubSpot. Yeah, the structure probably doesn't work for a brand new customer. You got to  get to know each other for a while. No. Yeah, you need a you need an existing relationship  or you got to be really good on the phone. I had that recently with a a paving company.

31:35 That  one actually I have it's like fake equity in the company which I could talk about but like that  was a completely random one that wasn't a new one but that's I don't know we just had really good  report that doesn't happen much. Now you say do other things for you. Are are you willing to just  put paid ads like Google ads or LSA into it to drive more leads for them?

31:56 Because the numbers on  that could make sense if they're sharing revenue, right? Yeah. Yeah, it absolutely could. I mean,  for me, so I do a bunch of different things like the the rental things is one. I've been buying  businesses. I've been doing these revenue shares and equity deals. Those are like the three core  ones. My goal is always to try to make try to pull myself out and make it as passive as possible for  me.

32:14 So, running ads and all these other things, I don't want to deal with it. But I have pulled  in friends of mine who do that with their agencies and just give them a cut of my cut and then try  to negotiate a little bit more for me. Talk to the business owner and be like, "All right, I know  we're at 20. I got another guy who could do this. I'll work with him and manage that relationship.

32:31 If you bump us to 25, I'll give a piece to him." I'm like, "You don't have to deal with it. Nothing  changes on your end. I'll just drive you way more leads. We're going to have it from Facebook now  and Google." And then just keep stacking this with people I know. Yeah. What are you looking for  in the first three minutes when it comes to a niche or a city that tell you this is a winner?

32:48 Do you want me to just walk through one? Yeah, please. So, people are like, you know, where  do I find a niche? It always makes me laugh. Look around all the trucks that drive by you  with car wraps on the side of them. But I like going to thumbtack.com near-me and then they  have all these different categories of things and each under each category is just a million  businesses that you could just look through and start googling these.

33:11 But I personally really like  home improvement. So I'll just start going through these and just take a niche and start googling  it. So like, you know, we could do as best as testing. Let me just as best testing. I'll just  pick a city. We'll we'll try Dallas. All right, cool. So I just popped in asbesus testing for  Dallas. I skipped over all the sponsored.

33:27 Don't care about that. Looking at the maps. I want to  see really low. So like less than 10 reviews. And possible. I'd like to see where they don't  have a website or maybe instead of a website they have like a social media profile. Like I've  seen people's Twitters, I've seen Facebooks, all kinds of stuff. Wow. Those type of things in  here tells me these people don't know what they're doing.

33:49 So that's going to be Yeah. And they're  ranking highly regardless. Right. Right. They're begging for a competitor. And then looking in  here, I also want to see like looking at the names of the businesses, nobody has an exact match. So  if I went Dallas is testing right now, I'm in this map somewhere automatically just by virtue of my  name being the exact keyword.

34:03 when nobody else has that. I like the map, how the map looks. So, let's  go organic now. Now, organic. I want to see local companies. Now, the first thing I see, this dude's  got an inner page. From a content perspective, one page on somebody's website that may have, you  know, a couple hundred words on it or something is not going to beat an entire website built on  that topic around that location, right?

34:23 Like, if I build a Dallas, Texas environmental consulting  thing or an asbestous testing, there's no way this guy's one page beats my entire site. So, I'm not  worried about inner pages. So, he's him I don't care. So, this guy's number one, right? Yeah.  Which is interesting because So, that means like, okay, that's a great sign. And then a Yelp. I'm  like, I don't care about Yelp either.

34:44 Google would rather have That shouldn't be number three.  Yeah. Google would rather have me, but you know, all these local companies aren't doing a good job,  so whatever. I'm just going to steamroll them, right? So, I'm going in here and I'll just kind of  look through. Don't care about sponsored. And then here we go again. Inner page. Inner page. inner  page, you know, that might be a local one.

35:03 That's better. You say inner page, you're just looking  at the domain. It's you're not just seeing the domain, you're seeing a sub page on the domain.  Yeah. Yeah. Like, right, like the little carrot, right? Asbestous testing, whatever. So, we can  click on one. Yeah. So, it's like, all right, he actually did okay. Like, this looks like the  H1 for his page.

35:20 Cool. And he's got some content and stuff, but like there's really not that much  on this. It's not the only thing he does either. Yeah. And like, you know, what is what is he got?  400 words maybe on the whole page. So, it's like if I create a website and I got, you know, 1,500  on that topic and then I go into detail on all the service pages on the same thing, I'm telling  Google, I'm a beast.

35:41 I know everything about this. This guy doesn't know anything. Come on. And then  Google's looking at me like, okay, this this might be a better option for the customer. This person  seems to know more. Yeah. Right. But like the map, I I don't love I like a lot of the stuff I  see, but I don't love how it's like 32 30 42. And because I want to do both, I want the map and  organic.

36:01 I'm skipping this even though, you know, the bottom looks nice. So then I'm straight back  to thumbtac. Uhuh. Cool. So I'll just go down the list. Let's try mold remediation. We'll stick  with Dallas. Let's just do mold remediation. If I could spell. Okay. So we're skipping the  ads down to here. Old remediation. 15 46 138. So like I don't like that either.

36:28 Nope. too much.  Instantly done. And I'll just do this. I'll keep going through the list and figure out like, okay,  which one of these might work. What about radon mitigation? That's interesting. These are all very  high ticket, too, right? Yeah. Like, we had radon at my parents house like years ago. That thing was  like $6,000 for them to install some kind of crazy system to put it out.

36:49 Look, this first one has one  review. Yeah. So, like there, this is interesting. Nobody even came up for the map. That's so Yep.  Right there. I want to let me let me try something else here and see if there's any other Another  thing you could do is go to trends.google.com and compare two search terms against each other.  Put radon removal in one, radon mitigation in the other and you can see all right well you know  nothing showed up for mitigation because no one really searches that.

37:17 They all search for removal.  So you don't want to get a false positive either, right? Yeah. I'm trying to pick whatever the main  keyword is. I don't know the niche so I don't know what that is. I'm assuming it's mitigation but you  know I tried both. We see the same guy. There's He's one person. He's got one review and the only  category is environmental consultant.

37:29 So, it's like we could check Google's categories right now  and see if there's something related to radon. And I don't know if there is, but this might be the  category we pick. But I I'm loving the fact that there's only one review. He's got a branded thing.  He put his LLC in the the title of his GMBB. So, he he doesn't know what he's doing. He's 68  years old.

37:48 He's he's he's 97. These other people, we got another Here we go again. Inner page.  inner page, a directory. There's that dude, so he's clueless. Then we got national radon  defense. That's probably a national site. I see Texas. I see a Reddit. Maybe somebody that's  local, Better Business Bureau and Angie's List. So, it's like here's a winner right here.

38:10 And how  much is Radon worth? So, I know that if I put up a site for this, I could probably be number one  in a month just with content without doing any link building at all. And if I get a GMBB for  this, Google will probably either boot this guy or create the three map instead of one map. Okay,  I can't believe I forgot to mention this during my episode when I was at my freaking studio.

38:29 I'm  clearly in a hotel right now, but me and my team will build this for you, a lead genen website  with a niche and a geography, and we'll set it up with SEO and backlinks and everything you need  to be successful. This is a brand new service that we're offering. and it's called done for you and  we put a link in the description below so you can apply to do this with us because a lot of people  get hung up on all the details.

38:46 Like they want the finished product, the website, but they don't  know how to get there. We will do all of that for you and just hand over a website to you that is  functional, working, and generating leads. And if it's not generating leads, we will swap it out  with a different niche andor geography until it is. Check the link below for more info on that.

39:04 How are you able to get Google business profile listings for all these things in all these cities?  Because it's getting more strict, isn't it? Yeah, I mean I generally work with a contractor. So  I'll generate leads organically first, which is obviously a little bit harder, but then once  you have those leads, I reach out to the person, I'll make a deal, and then once I see that  they're paying me and we have our establish a relationship, it's going a little bit, then  kind of like my rev share idea, I'm just going

39:30 back to them and saying, "Hey, you know, I've got  a way that we can get a lot more leads coming in, but I would need your help. Like you down to help  me get this?" Okay. It's like a He's creating a false competitor, right? Basically. Yeah. Illusion  of saturation. Yep. I'll have him help me do it. I mean, there's guaranteed ways to do it. You  could just spin up LLC's, but I won't do that unless it's worth a lot of money because taxes  and all the other stuff that comes with it.

39:49 So, outside of picking the name, picking the niche,  getting the Google business profile. What are some other best practices for ranking quickly, like SEO  best practices? Go into all the competitors sites. Google whatever the niche is. So, we just did  radon mitigation. Look up all the competitors and see what they're talking about. I take notes and  just get a big list.

40:07 And then I'll go into other cities, too. So, like, you know, Dallas might  have no competition, but San Diego might have killer competition. And I want to know where the  competition's crazy because they'll have better stuff. So, I'm going to go into all the top cities  and see who's got it. And once I have an idea of all the things we could potentially talk about,  then I'll go look at the keywords and see like, okay, what should be a page and what shouldn't  based on volumes.

40:28 500 plus keyword searches or so, let's do something. 50s, don't really care. I'll  weave it in where I can. And that's kind of how I'm building out the overall structure.  And then once that structure is created, that content's got to be really really good. So  I'm trying to weave the the keywords in there. I'm trying to make sure it answers questions,  structuring it for AI's doing a lot of like making sure the HTML is lined up correctly like what  is the umbrella keyword versus the things that should fall under that

40:58 logically because that's  how Google's looking at it. And then creating some structure with frequently asked questions. And  for that you just go to chatgbt and type it in. I'm trying to rank a site for radon mitigation  in Dallas. What are the common questions that consumers have about this? And it'll spit out  like ask Yelp and ask Reddit or like ask all the social media sites.

41:18 You can put that right in  the prompt and it'll pull exact quotes from Yelp, Reddit, Facebook, all the social profiles and now  you have stuff you could write about and then you just throw it right into the content on whatever  the related page is. Yeah. So if this business, this industry has seen any disruption from AI,  it's been positive disruption.

41:34 It's made it more scalable. Yeah. More doable. Yeah. People get  worried about the AI taking away searches and whatever, but it doesn't this is the last thing to  be affected because people still want to talk to a person. They don't want an AI answer. They want  to answer the phone and like install this thing for their house so they don't die. Yeah.

41:54 Do you  use any other thirdparty tools for finding the supply and the demand imbalances in these markets  or are you literally doing what you just shared your screen and showed me? I mean two so SCM Rush  if you want one that's like already out there. I have an AI engineer friend who built a private one  for me that just kind of does the research for me so I don't really have to do the manual googling  anymore.

42:14 Yeah. What are your numbers like today? How many sites do you have? What's your monthly  revenue, profit, etc.? It's 232 sites. You're gonna have to do the math on the profit. I'm not  going to know what that is. But we finished the month 1925 last month. Holy crap. In one month.  Yeah. And growing, I imagine. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just from last year, it's drastically  different that I have to thank Brad because the the introduction of the revenue share, just that  idea jacked this up tremendously just because

42:42 you can make so much more off one person and I don't  have to keep taking on more clients. I can just grow one person. What do your costs look like? I  mean, you've got a virtual assistant. That's not much. It's usually around 50 grand for the year.  So, like Okay. One VA for everything. Yeah. One VA is 1,200 bucks. The other one's a,000. Cloud  hosting's like 300 a month.

43:01 Call Rails like 5600 a month. I'm on a legacy plan at this point. So,  that's cool. They didn't boot me. Rank tracking would be like 150. And then Valter for uh cloud  servers all over the place for map listings and things. And then my VA just kind of manage it all  for me. So I don't really have to do much other than just kind of oversee check in. I was going  to ask for your tech stack, but I think you just listed it out.

43:29 So yeah, it's all of it. Yeah. When  you're tracking like people are getting this many calls, they're actually answering. They're calling  back. That's all done through call rail. Yeah, VAS are doing all that. I'm not doing any of  that. I look at a a rank report on Mondays that the VA send me and the call tracking report to see  that numbers are stable.

43:41 We have so much data over the time. I can see general trends. So, like if  there's seasonality or weird things that happen and as long as it they both look okay. Like if  rankings tanked but the call volume is still the same, I'm like whatever. But if rankings went down  and call volume went down, then I'm like, "Okay, let's see what's up and we'll look into it."

44:01 But  generally, most of the sites are things like the Irving one where they're just sitting. So, it's  not I don't do anything. It's literally passive. I don't do anything with it. The bigger ones are the  ones I'm kind of on top of more because those are worth hundreds of thousands per site. So that I'm  like watching a little bit heavier. So over 90% net profit margins.

44:22 Yeah. How many hours per week  are you spending on this? On this two or three. Wow. For for the rental sites. The other the other  things I'm doing like the equity share stuff and whatever that's newer. So I'm spend a lot quite  a bit of time on that. But I guess it's like I'm looking at it as like do you have to? No. I could  just go chill and do nothing, but I would lose my mind.

44:42 So, I have to something and that's what I  choose to spend it on. So, what should someone's first step be for getting involved with this  business? Just going and finding their niche and learning WordPress. Is WordPress very difficult  to learn for something like this? There's lots of tutorials and things for WordPress. And you  could use drag and drop like Elementor, Divvy, Bakery Builder, all easy things.

44:59 They give you a  menu of items like drag title onto the page, drag paragraph. You can just play with it and learn  it. content and stuff easy to just Google things, domains and stuff. We just went over niches we  just went over. I think the only thing that people are going to have a problem with is probably link  building. So like if people are trying to do the whole YouTube University learn for free thing,  good luck.

45:17 Follow one person instead of multiple so at least the puzzle pieces will line up  instead of taking one thing from that guy and one thing from this guy and trying to jam the pieces  together. And then in terms of like renting sites out, it's really not that hard. The conversation  is you have leads in hand, you already have something valuable. I'm literally just calling  the person and saying, "Hey, I know you don't know me from Adam, but I've got customers that  want this."

45:38 I'm like, "If I send you some people, can we work out a cut?" And the majority of people  will say, "Yeah, cool. That sounds great." Yeah. And then I'll just test the relationship. What do  you use to invoice them every month? Stripe. It's always Stripe. I'll get their credit card, have it  on file, autopay. I'm not doing invoicing because I don't want them to have any control.

45:56 I want all  the control. Do you think that SEO skills tactics are more important or is the right niche selection  more important? Niche is definitely important, but that SEO piece is the last little bump that  can make something go from worth 400 bucks a month to worth like four grand a month. So your  first six sites replace your income. What did your first year, second year like?

46:19 How did your  growth look like from that first year until today? kind of like a one of these because it was it was  pretty incremental. Uh literally until last year. It's been kind of like a a little wave going up  and then this past year was just a straight ramp just because of the revenue share thing. I just  picked the the biggest clients and went all in on trying to grow those.

46:43 Is this a good thing to do  on the side like a aside a full-time job as a side hustle? I love it as a side hustle idea because  there's lots of people that have walked away from jobs and all kinds of stuff doing exactly this.  I I know three people that have made more than a million bucks just since 2022 with doing this  on the side of what they're doing.

46:58 Yeah. Like eventually quit, but like that's insane. So yeah,  now I love it as a side hustle and it's way better than any of the ones I tried. Yeah. And we've  all tried a lot. So much better. I think it's a great thing. I think then in pivoting like I  would highly recommend trying the revenue share because that makes even more. Yeah. And then I've  also known something called profit interest.

47:21 It's kind of like a it's like fake equity or revenue  share on phantom equity. It's like uh allows me to participate in revenue share now, but I also  can take a piece of the company when it sells. I'm like I just got a paving deal for that. Their  company's worth three and a half million and I just got 20% of it. So I'm going to try to push  them as high as I can with SEO and see what I can do.

47:43 And then eventually when they sell, I don't  know when that's going to be 10 years from now, 15 years. That's going to be worth a lot of money.  So it's like I'll get the the big thing now, but I'll get a big chunk at the end, too.  Man, I'm fired up to do this myself. I'm the guy that's just supposed to ask questions  of it now. I'm like, "Oh, gez."

47:56 Shiny object, man. It's It's rough. Rough. It's real.  It's very real. It's rough. Well, Luke, where can we find you? Where can we learn more  about you uh and everything you do? Uh yeah. I mean, you want to learn about my stuff? It's it's  website coaching.com. Is there anything we should have covered that I neglected to ask you about?  I guess there's there's a couple things.

48:12 Um, there's a lot of I think one of the things I've  learned that I kind of wish I knew sooner was the other uses of this. It just never really occurred  to me until recently. I was doing this renting websites for a long time and it created a a tax  problem, a good one. And I was talking to my CPA the one day and she's like, "You're going to have  to pay a lot this year."

48:34 And I was like, "Okay." And she told me, I almost had a heart attack.  And I was like, okay, how do we not pay that? And she's like, legally. And I was like, yes,  legally. Uh, and she goes, "You can buy real estate or buy a business." And I was like, "Okay,  I have real estate. That's not done much for me. What do What do you mean buy a business?" And  she's like, "Just buy an existing business.

48:55 Lots of baby boomers. Go buy one that's already working  and you can take all the FFNA, the furniture, fixture, equipment, all trucks, all that stuff,  and offset some of your income so you don't have to pay taxes on it." And I was like, "Cool.  What's the downside?" And she's like, "Well, next year you're going to have that company making  you money, too, so you're going to have even more tax problems and you're going to do it again."

49:13 Well, and then you you got to run a business or got to hire someone run this business. I'm  like, "All right, well, whatever." So, I'm like, "Fine." So, I did that. I I I went I went and I  learned about acquisition and I ended up buying a a catering company. And I have no experience in  catering. I was only comfortable with this because of this background.

49:34 Like knowing SEO, knowing lead  genen, I knew like even if everything fell apart, their website's doing nothing, ads are doing  anything, I can get the leads. So I'm like, whatever. How hard could it be? So I bought it.  I took a an SBA loan. It was like 230,000 down or something. I bought the company 1.7 million.  I took my brother out of his job. He was an operations manager at a car wash.

49:57 And I was like,  "Hey, if I gave you half the company, would you run this?" And he's like, "Absolutely." So, I put  him in to keep me passive and he ran it. So, I've just been passive partner on this, just pumping  it with leads and it just pays me while I chill. And then I've just been I just didn't think of  this sooner. So, I'm like, "This is awesome."

50:15 So, I just keep trying to buy more businesses to  offset more taxes and use SEO to grow it. And it's been going well. The catering business, it's  great. It's awesome, man. That's interesting. I gotta look into that because it too like a lot of  the people with me. I've been trying to show them the that too because everybody wants to just go as  big as possible and I'm just looking what is the highest use of this skill set.

50:38 I think that might  be it. Yeah. Okay. More vertically integrated. Luke, you're the man. Thank you. Absolutely.  Thanks, Chris. If you like this content, please share with a friend, hit a like or a comment  below, and we'll see you next time on the Kerner