The Most Passive $104K/M Online Business You've Never Heard Of Transcript, AI Summary & Key Points

00:00 On this podcast, we only reserve the P word  passive for like things that I truly believe can be. And I I don't like that word usually, but  I will use it when I feel like it applies. And it seems like this is one of those exceptions where  it does apply. The best part about this business model, we talk about the money and everything  like that, and that's awesome, but genuinely, once you get that client in the door, this becomes  99% passive.

00:19 Your website does not need to be touched ever again. I have clients that have been  with me for 5 years now and I haven't spoken to them or had any communication with them since  and they've been paying me every single month and that's my goal. People like to talk about real  estate like it's passive but it's definitely Oh jeez started. Definitely not.

00:41 This is a thousand  times more passive than real estate cuz the risk is so much lower. You're not taking out a half  million dollar mortgage on some property and the overhead is so low in this business. If you're  using the most drag and drop userfriendly tools, you're spending no more than like $25 a month  in total overhead. Our company does around $100,000 a month as a whole, and our overhead's  maybe less than $5,000 a month.

01:03 Yeah, it's crazy. I was so desperate to get out of the situation  I was in in my previous career. I just threw out the number. I go $6,000 and within 20 minutes  it was wired. And I looked at my wife, I'm like, "Somebody just wired me $6,000." I'm like, "It  didn't seem real." I was chasing time freedom and I tried finding it in things like drop shipping,  day trading, other business models online.

01:26 But when I found this business model, I was in it for  the time freedom and the easiness of it. But the real thing that gets me excited is the unlimited  amount of time I get to spend with my kid. So, let me tell you about Kyle. A while back,  Kyle texted an old high school friend a screen recording and 20 minutes later had six grand wired  into his bank account.

01:48 and he had never earned a dollar online before that day. Six years later,  he runs what he calls a website landlord business, doing about $104,000 a month with almost no  overhead. And yes, he works only an hour or two a day. He uses cheap online tools to find  supply and demand gaps. Then he builds basic websites within those niches. So today, of course,  we're going to talk about how you can copy Kyle, what his script is for closing these deals, and  what niches are still untapped.

02:17 Enjoy. All right. Well, Kyle, tell me what a website landlord is.  So, essentially, a website landlord is people who own pieces of internet real estate. And it's not  domain flipping or anything like that. It's you're basically building a website for a certain niche  in a certain city and then renting out that lead flow that comes through it to an actual local  business owner.

02:41 So, let me give you an example. If I were to build a website right now for junk  removal services in Austin, Texas, I don't own a junk removal company. I don't have a client that  has a junk removal company. Anybody can build whatever website they want, you know. So, I go  out and build this website that's all about junk removal services in Austin, Texas.

03:02 I do what's  called SEO on the website to get it ranking. It's involves content and something called backlinks we  can get into later, but I get that website ranking to page one. And once it's on page one of Google,  so that it shows up anytime somebody searches for junk removal services in Austin, Texas. Obviously,  people are going to be clicking on it.

03:19 Obviously, there are hundreds if not thousands of people in  Austin, Texas every day going to Google to try and find a junk removal company. So, if my website  is one of those sites on page one, I'm gonna get a percentage of those people searching. And once  they come to my site, they're going to see the little phone number that's on my website, right?

03:40 It's called a tracking phone number. I can control where all those calls flows to. It's my like dummy  number. So when people call that phone number, it automatically forwards to a business owner I've  partnered up with. Right? But to backtrack just a hair, before I even have a business owner hooked  up to them, I'm getting the site to page one. It's getting calls.

04:00 At first, I'm just letting  all those calls go to voicemail before I have a client working with me. It's no big deal. Let them  go to voicemail. There will be more callers next month. There's never ending. and you're capturing  their info, they're not like as likely to convert, you know, if you find a guy to buy your leads  and he calls them later, but at least you still have the data and it's proof of concept.

04:18 So, you  can say, "Hey, Bob, I get three calls a day for people searching for exactly what you're selling."  Exactly. Exactly. Well, the best part about this is that the overhead is so low in this business  model. Like if you're using the most expensive tools or like the most drag and drop userfriendly  tools, you're spending no more than like $25 a month in total overhead per site.

04:39 That's  for the hosting, the URL, and the phone number, right? So, the benefit of that is that once I  do have a website, it's getting like 50 to 100 calls or so a month, I'm calling up that junk  removal company in Austin, Texas, and I'm like, "Hey, man. I got this website. It's getting  like 50 calls a month of people looking for junk removal services in Austin.

04:59 I connect them  to you for a week for free and I'm not going to take a credit card information from you. I'm not  going to um make you sign anything. It's literally just a free trial. And sometimes it sounds too  good to be true to them and they're just like, "It sounds suspicious." But usually they're like,  "Well, whatever. All you need is my email and phone number."

05:18 So you give them the free trial  and you just want them to start trusting you and to see that your leads are good. So then they'll  want to pay for that. Right. Exactly. So, I give them the free trial and by the end of that week,  if they've made some money off my calls, that next conversation I have with them is really just about  what monthly flat fee we negotiate.

05:32 Can I pause you because I feel like that's the that's a big  key of this is if they're making any money on on my calls. How do you know that they're reporting  accurately, that they're not lying, that they're following up with the leads, that they're actually  answering the phone, etc., or is does there just have to be a good bit of trust involved? Well, I  could see if they're answering the calls or not.

05:58 Sometimes in the call tracking platform, I could  see the recordings and stuff, but the thing is is if they are didn't make any money off of it, then  they're probably not going to be a good client for me anyways. So, I'm just going to move on to the  next person because if they're not making money off of it, why would they pay me, right? Sure.  And if they are making money off of it, they're not going to want me to turn the calls off.

06:18 So,  the incentives are aligned. Exactly. So, can you see the the recordings or the call transcripts  as well? Yes. So, if they're like, "Sorry, yeah, I got a few calls but didn't go anywhere and  then you look at the transcript and it's like, all right, $700 invoice sent." You're like, "Hey,  bro." Yes. But you're saying that doesn't even happen that often because they see that the calls  are good and now it's just a matter of not will you pay me, but how much will you pay me?

06:40 Yeah.  It we come up with a flat fee and I don't do any contracts with them. I'm just like, you know what?  Cancel anytime because I have the leverage because I'm sending them the calls and if they cancel the  calls go away. So they're basically if they cancel they're agreeing to lose a big portion of their  income, right? So they could cancel whenever they want, right?

07:00 So they have that exit. So it's a  pretty easy conversation. They saw the calls, they trust me versus a standard marketing company  who does like sells Google ads or Facebook ads or something like that. these sales calls for those  people. It's it's a trust game. They're working out like, "Hey, can I convince this guy to pay me  $1,500 a month for the next six months and without any guarantee of results, right?

07:25 That's a tough  sell. It's like you have to show them testimonials and be like, "Look, I promise you I'm really,  really good at this, but sign this contract and you're going to pay me for the next six months  whether I get you results or or not." With me, the whole script is flipped because I'm like, "Hey,  I already did the work of building and ranking a website and it's sending you calls and you're  making money off of me before we even agree on a deal."

07:48 And I'm not pressure selling. Yeah. This is  more of like a a landlord and tenant relationship, not like a oh customer, please work with me,  right? Relationship. This is the rent. And if you don't like I've had I've had rental homes. It's  like the rent is not negotiable because I've got 18 people applying for this house. 100%. You don't  want these calls.

08:04 I'm just going to call Joe down the street. And I know that sounds like aggressive  and mean, but like my service is hugely beneficial to small business owners who can't afford to to  take that $1,500 a month risk on some marketing company with no guarantee of results. These  small businesses, most of the guys I work with, they they only have 1,500 bucks to gamble on  a marketing company.

08:27 So with me, there's no gambling. day one, they're getting leads to pay  for my services. There's never a loss of money. It's I'm an instant slot machine. You put you put  $1,000 into me, I'm sending you $5,000 back. You see what I mean? So, it's really a huge benefit  to these like more mom and pops that can't afford to gamble in a marketing company.

08:52 Well, you  mentioned like I don't have contracts. Like I don't I don't negotiate on price. And this is  a trust business and results are the greatest form of trust there is. Right? Contracts equal  lack of trust in a relationship. You're saying, "I already brought you results. They were free.  I called you and I brought you results. Like this is the price.

09:12 I don't need a contract cuz  I got a guy waiting." Exactly. I'm not afraid of you cancelling. I could call the next person. I  love like this is one of my general frameworks for life is do the hard thing first. So, like if you  start a business and it is just a beast and you're beating your head against the wall and it takes  months to get profitable, that means everything after that point is just going to be so much nicer  and easier.

09:33 Every business after that point, every sale after that point in the same business you're  saying, listen, bro, I did the hard part. The hard part is ranking. That's my skill. You're good at  junk removal. You keep doing that. I'm really good at being a website landlord. I've already done  the hard part. I've proven the results. And then everything after that is just gravy.

09:53 Exactly.  Exactly. It's it's just day one results and uh that's that's really the benefit. The only  downside for the business owner is that their brand isn't being advertised on my site, right?  But they don't care because the only reason you want to be on page one is because you want the  customers that come from page one. And it's tons. It's not just any customers.

10:15 It's high intent  customers because no one is typing into Google junk removal services in Austin unless they're  looking to purchase junk removal services in Austin. And plus, a lot of these people have had  experience with paid ads. And paid ads, you get such low ROI because you pay thousands of dollars  for them. And plus, if you're anything like me, which I think most searchers are, once you go to  search on Google and you see a bunch of ads in this top section of the front page, you scroll  right past them and go

10:42 to the results below, which is where we are. Because people have this  inclination or what's the word, the the belief that if you're in the spots below the ads, that  means you're the best in town. When in reality, showing up right there has nothing to do with  your quality of work. You could be the worst junk removal company in the whole state and  you'll still be on page one because you have good SEO.

11:09 Well, just like anything, if you're the  best at marketing, you win. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And and the great part about the best part about  this business model, we talked about the money and everything like that and that's awesome, but  genuinely once you get that client in the door, this becomes 99% passive. All right? as you scale  to more be because once the site is built and ranked, majority of the time your website does  not need to be touched ever again because we're competing in low competition SEO spaces

11:37 like  longtail searches. Not even not even because junk removal Austin might not be a great example  because I haven't done my research on a actual lowhanging fruit niche in city but SEO is just  a game of competition. I don't want to go into a niche where like personal injury lawyer Los  Angeles where the competing websites are funded by major marketing companies that these law firms  are paying $50,000 a month to.

12:00 I want to compete against Joe, Bill, and Steve in Oram, Utah with a  junk removal company where they have websites that I'm competing against. They bought those websites  maybe back in 2005 and haven't touched them since. And so I go in there, yeah, make a halfdecent site  and do basic SEO and I'm knocking them out of the park really quickly and I don't have to do ongoing  SEO to maintain the site because I'm already so far ahead and they're not even noticing that  they're that they're not in the number one spot

12:34 anymore and they're still getting roughly the same  amount of calls because being in spot one, two, or three is roughly the same. Yeah. Funny because  OM Utah is actually really competitive usually as well as return missionaries like myself.  I know you just picked that city at random, but super competitive there. But I want to just  mention the passive part one more time because it is genuinely passive.

12:51 The only thing that the  only time it becomes like maybe an hour or two a day of work is when you scale up to a point where  I'm at where I have like over a hundred clients and maybe 20% of those clients every month credit  cards decline and I have to go follow up payment, right? And so I just test involves me shooting out  texts and emails every day to follow up with them to collect the payment.

13:14 Maybe by the end of the  month, one or two of them don't pay. I have some churn and then I'm following up. Just making phone  calls to find a new client to replace them. Yeah. Hey, YouTube's fine, but what about when you're  driving around? What about when you're mowing the lawn? You need my audio podcast, The Kerner  Office. Just look up TKO Pod in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast.

13:33 I mean, what  we're talking about is basic supply and demand. You're saying you look to the supply and demand  first. Not necessarily the keyword volume, but the supply and demand. And there are at least  a thousand home service niches out there. And I know that sounds like too much, but there's really  not. If I say the word gutters, then it's gutter cleaning, gutter repair, gutter replacement.

13:51 Like just in the gutters, there's at least 10, right? So let's just say there's a thousand to  be conservative. And then let's say there's only a thousand cities worthy of trying to rank.  That's a million supply and demand variations that we're talking about. Are you telling me  that the market is so perfectly efficient that all million of those combinations are there's a  there's the right amount of supply and demand in all of them?

14:16 Absolutely not. And a decade from  now there still won't be. Right? So that's the level of opportunity here. And on this podcast,  we only reserve the P word passive for like things that I truly believe can be. And I I don't like  that word usually, but I will use it when I feel like it applies. And it seems like this is one of  those exceptions where it does apply.

14:33 So listen, it's not like dividends, right? It's not passive  dividends. Well, it takes activity to get to the passive point. I'll tell you right now, you know,  people like to talk about real estate like it's passive, but it's definitely Oh, dude. than we  started. Definitely not. This is a thousand times more passive than real estate because the risk  is so much lower.

14:56 You're not taking out a half a million dollar mortgage on some property and  your overhead is maybe 20 $25 a month in total overhead. Plus, you cash flow way more and the  maintenance is so much lower. So, let me ask you about pricing. I'm going to make an assumption  here because I'm kind of in this industry and I've I've been in lead genen forever.

15:15 Different types  of lead genen, directory sites. To me, there's a lot of overlap here with directory sites. I mean,  a directory site could be a a website landlord, a rank and rent site, right? Yes. So, I'm going to  make an assumption that you've tested a pay-perle model here as opposed to a flat monthly price  model because you thought, man, we could be much more profitable if we charge 30 bucks per call.

15:38 And 30 bucks per call is very generous because we know that his close rate is 50%, his average job  is $800. So, 30 bucks per call is cheap for him. you tested it and then you saw that it just didn't  work as well because these business owners want to know what their bill is going to be every month.  Even if they net out behind, they would rather pay you a flat fee every month because of the  predictability of it.

15:59 Is that accurate at all? So, what most of these business owners want to do is  a commissionbased and they want to just pay on jobs they close. But obviously, I can't do that  because that requires me to track all their jobs and trust. you know, there's no way for me to know  if they actually closed the job or not. And if you could if you could trust them perfectly, it'd  probably be more profitable for you.

16:20 I'm actually for It's funny you bring that up because for the  first time ever, I my contractor that I use for my house, we've become pretty good friends and just  recently I started generating concrete leads for him and we're actually doing a 10% commission with  it and it's turning out to be way more profitable. But that's because I totally trust him and he's a  cool guy.

16:39 Yeah. Yep. But the pay-per- call thing, yes, it's unpredictable for the client. And  I've done things in the past where they have fluctuating tiers of rates where it's like, hey,  if you get 25 to 50 calls, you're going to pay this much. If you get 50 to 100 calls, you're  going to pay this much. I've kind of abandoned that, not only for the client's sake, but for my  sake.

16:58 I know I do really well. I make around 35k a month, and it might be sound impressive to some  people, and it is, I guess, kind of impressive. Is that profit? That's pretty much the overhead  is like so low. It's our company does around $100,000 a month as a whole and our overhead's  maybe less than $5,000 a month. Yeah, it's crazy. But the point I'm trying to make is I am not one  of those aggressive entrepreneurs with like SOPs and watching motivation videos and going to the  gym every morning.

17:28 I am at my core a fairly lazy guy. Like I used to work in television. I worked  in television for 10 years. And I was working 20 to 24-hour days some days during show weeks.  Like I worked on award shows like the Oscars, Emmys, and big shows like that. And when there's  a deadline, there's no avoiding that deadline. I was grinding it out and got burnt out and started  looking for business modes.

17:52 I guess the reason that relates to what I'm about to say is because  I really wanted I was chasing time freedom and I tried finding it in things like dropshipping, day  trading, other business models online. But when I found this business model, I was in it for the  time freedom and the easiness of it. And so when I first started, I had this rush of motivation built  out really, really big for the first few years because I was just I had my eye on the prize.

18:19 But  I'm in year six of doing this business model now, right? And at the level I'm making, which some  people would assume I should probably be making more after six years, but I'm I've kind of fallen  into the comfort zone. I'm making a a number that I'm really comfortable with. But the reason I've  switched from the tiered pricing to the monthly flat rate pricing is because I wanted simplicity.

18:43 When you have the tiered pricing, I have clients reaching out to me being like, why did my invoice  pop up to 1,500 this month? Then they want to go over every single lead with me and determine  whether it was actually a legitimate lead or not. Yeah, I don't want that headache. I'd rather  make less money and have this be 100% passive than squeak out an extra 5 to 10 grand a month because  I'm like overanalyzing and auditing all the leads.

19:10 Auditing leads. Yeah. I don't want anything to do  with that. Clients that have been with me for five years and I haven't spoken to them or had any  communication with them since and they've been paying me every single month and that's my goal.  How long did it take you after starting this six years ago to see your first win? Three months.  I kind of did it a backwards way.

19:25 I since I was really hungry to get money in the door, I didn't  do it the classic way of building the sites first, then finding a client. What I did was I went onto  my phone, I went into my Facebook, Instagram, I made a list of all the business owners I knew,  right? And I came across this one friend of mine who was an attorney, um, a workers comp attorney.

19:45 He was a friend of mine from high school. I hadn't talked to him in 10 years, though. But I reached  out to him. I made a screencast video where I recorded my screen and showed him how this  business model works and how I could build him a site targeting Torrance. I could build him a  site targeting Long Beach, Anaheim, Sei Valley and specific cities targeting where I could generate  him leads from.

20:03 And he loved the idea. He wanted to try it. And he said, "What do I have to pay  to get this ball rolling?" And so I just I had never I had never made a single dollar in my life  outside of W2 earnings. And so I just threw out a number because I always heard in movies and  stuff, aim high. And you know, in your defense, like a personal injury attorney as like an  agency owner is like the golden club.

20:24 Well, it was a worker. They've got budget. It was a  worker. Okay. You said that. Okay. So it was still attorneys are great clients. Yeah. They've  got cash. Yes. Exactly. I I just threw up the number. I go $6,000 and within 20 minutes it was  wired. And I looked at my wife. I'm like, somebody just wired me $6,000. I'm like, it didn't seem  real. The good thing about that is I still at the time wasn't like an expert at this.

20:49 But what was  good about that is that this was somebody I knew and I didn't want to burn his trust and and burn a  relationship. And so by him sending me that money, it lit a fire to get things going. I didn't care  or deliver. Yeah. I didn't care if I spent every single dime of that $6,000 in outsourcing or the  ways to make it happen faster. I just needed to deliver results cuz I knew if I did, it would  be a long-term relationship.

21:13 and he's still my client to this day. Wow. Now, what does he pay  on an ongoing basis? Well, since he was a friend, he did have fluctuating. At first, we started  out at like 5,000 or so a month and then we got once the lead flow started increasing. I  got to like 7,500 a month and stuff, but over time like we we've restructured deals cuz he is  a friend.

21:34 We go on hikes and stuff sometimes. He was pay started paying me like 300 bucks per new  client he landed, which added a little bit more incentive to me. And then he would also pay a base  SEO fee of like 1,500 bucks. So he pay me 1,500 bucks a month plus $300 per new client he signs  up. Wow. So you spent your first three months just learning. Were you building and publishing  anything or just kind of learning tools?

21:57 Yeah, I was just building and learning. Well, I think  it's so important that when anyone launches any agency, digital marketing, whatever, start with  your network. Like, it all comes down to trust. Don't be afraid to burn your friend. Like, just  let it light a fire under you to overd deliver and start with your network. Because if you  just start cold with people out of insecurity, which I've done that before, it's going to be  so much harder to get your first yes.

22:20 But if you get your first yes from a friend, now you  have a case study that you can sell to all the cold leads. 100%. I always tell people I think  a key is digging yourself into a hole, you know, which is what I did. It sounds crazy, but I know  exactly what you mean. Yeah. I I I accepted $6,000 from this guy and I'm not the type of person  that feels comfortable just robbing someone.

22:42 So, I felt this overwhelming pressure to dig myself  out of this hole. I'm like, he's expecting something very soon. I got to get into action.  It's kind of like a gym membership. You know, if you go sign up at Planet Fitness and you're  paying $10 a month, it's very easy for you to be like, I don't feel like going this month, big  deal. 10 bucks, right?

23:01 But if you're spending like 500 bucks a month on a gym membership, you're be  like, I better show up because spending this damn money. Well, didn't you tell me that you first  learned how to do this from a course? And if so, how much did that cost? Did that light a fire  under you? $6,500. Was it a course and a community or just just one and community?

23:25 It was it was a  good one, right? It doesn't exist anymore. That course doesn't uh really exist anymore, but  it was I don't care. It doesn't I'm so glad I spent that money now. Obviously, I did not have  a ton of money back then. Like my net worth was probably 20k, but I was so desperate to get out of  the situation I was in in my previous career that, you know, I had bought $500 courses in the past.

23:48 Now, my mindset was like, you know what? You get what you pay for. Why would I spend $500 on  something that's not getting me anywhere? Wouldn't I rather spend $6,000 on something that's going to  actually get me somewhere? You know, obviously you have to vet that it's actually going to be worth  the money, but like I did and it actually was, you know, this was there was involvement and  everything.

24:09 Yeah. I think I think that's why courses and communities get a better rap because  they don't deliver on their promises. They they sell a crapload of goods. Yeah. And if it if  they do deliver on their promise, they can be life-changing. I know courses do have bad rep  and they probably some of them deserve it, but a course changed my absolute life.

24:26 I've witnessed  it changed so many other people's lives. It's just you're you're learning new skills. And what you  really want to find in your course is a community that's keeping you engaged. And that's probably  the most important part. How much does your most profitable customer pay for you? So let me ask  you two questions in one. One is how much do you make from your most profitable customer?

24:47 Two is  how much does your most profitable customer make for themselves from your leads? Does that make  sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like how much are we both benefiting from all this? Yeah. And maybe it's the  same customer, maybe it's not. I don't really have exact insights onto my customers revenue like  ROI. Yeah. I don't have exact numbers. Look at that.

25:11 my metric really is anecdotally like do  you know of a customer that was like dude I'm making 30 grand a month from your leads. You know  what I'm saying? I have been told things like that before. So I do have clients who have told me that  like I get holiday cards from some of these guys. They're like telling me how grateful they are  that I made their Christmas because I showed up in their lives.

25:29 I have a guy who told me we just  upgraded our house to a we moved to a fourbedroom house instead of a two-bedroom with our kids and  everything and it's all because of your leads. the best feeling ever. And it it you almost feel  guilty accepting that praise because you haven't really done any work for them since you built  the website. It's not like I'm grinding it out for them every day, but I'm still benefiting them.

25:50 But we do have some clients that pay us, you know, like $5,000 a month. And my metric for assuming  why they're paying me is that they're doing really well. You know, if they were only squeaking out  an extra thousand off my the $5,000 of paying me, I don't think they'd be still paying me. Yeah.  Let me ask you something. How many leads have you lost because nobody picked up the phone?

26:10 An 8:00 p.m. call comes in, you're at dinner, and you let it go to voicemail. And by the time  you call back the next morning, they've already hired someone else. And that's reality. Leads come  in after hours when emergencies strike. And when you miss the call, you miss the job. And it's  not about quality, it's about speed. Highlevel built an AI employee to fix just this.

26:30 It answers  real phone calls, talks to leads, qualifies them, and books appointments directly on your calendar  24/7. Also, it'll handle text, DMs, and web chat, so you can stop missing revenue just because  you couldn't grab the phone. Oh, and you can also white label the entire thing and resell it to  your clients as your software. Charge them monthly and that is recurring revenue that you didn't have  yesterday.

26:57 So, check out gohighlevel.com/tkopod and they will give you a 30-day free trial to see  what I mean. How many calls are is a client like that getting? 5,000. Well, it depends what niche  you're in and the niches that my partners and I focus on. It's I mean, that would be maybe like  800 calls a month. So, lot sometimes I'll I'll build out a client to sometimes a client who has  like multiple cities.

27:22 like you don't really get to 800 calls a month in one city in most it's usually  multiple cities or multiple territories within the state. So what you could do with some of your  clients is you could grow them out if they offer services in adjacent cities or adjacent markets.  So we'll start with them in let's say Dallas and then you could build them another site in Fort  Worth.

27:46 You can build them another site in say they go all the way to Austin, build another site in  San Antonio, and then all of a sudden you've built up this client to something like $5,000 a month  and getting 800 leads a month. You know, it's well worth it for them. I honestly am okay. Like I  there are tons of clients that I should be getting paid more from.

28:04 100%. I deserve more for some of  these sites. But because of the passive nature of this business model, I try not to get too greedy  because if somebody loves my leads and say I feel like I should be getting $1,000 for this site, but  they're only paying me like 600. I'm going to be okay with that deal because I know they're going  to be comfortable at that rate.

28:22 They're never going to bother me and they're going to stick with  me for years and years and years and I don't have to hear from them and it's easy. versus if I'm  charging them too much, then they're going to they're going to be on top of like the quality of  my services and be calling me up and questioning every time there's a slow month or something.

28:40 I don't want any of that. I want easy. This is such a hard principle to learn. I'm still trying  to learn it because I'm like I I still fight a scarcity mindset having grown up poor. But if you  think of the most profitable companies on uh on the planet and the the highest value companies on  the planet, Apple, $4 trillion company, they are all companies that offer hundreds or thousands  of times more value than what they're selling.

29:10 Amazon, if Amazon Prime went from whatever it is,  150 to 400 tomorrow, I'm gonna pay it. And Amazon knows I'm gonna pay it, right? Because I'm buying  from Amazon like every single day. If the Apple iPhone went from $1,000 to $2,000, I'm gonna buy  it. And Apple knows it. Right. Right. They know that not everyone will, but their core users  will. But my lifetime value with Apple is over $100,000.

29:31 Right. Because of the fact that I think  that even though my MacBook was $3,500, I'm going to spend thousands of hours on it and generate  millions of dollars from that MacBook. It's worth hundreds and or even thousands of times more than  what I paid for it. And because of that, Apple's insanely profitable and they're a $4 trillion  company. Rinse and repeat with any mega profitable company.

29:54 And so it it's hard to do that. It's hard  to not charge more when you know you can. But if you play the long game and you're relentlessly  addicted to playing long-term games with long-term people, then you can do it. Like you cannot raise  your prices just because you can. You can keep buying more and more trust and goodwill and then  they'll tell their friends and then they'll tell their their friends and you will make more money  while charging less all along.

30:15 It's a magical thing. Yeah. It's it's you almost want people  to forget your bill even exists. That's kind of my goal. You know, I don't want people to feel it  every month and get punched in the gut. You know, I want them to kind of forget about it because  then they're just going to leave me alone because what we're all doing this for. I mean, some people  are in entrepreneurship for the love of the game.

30:38 You know, some things about doing business gets  me excited, but the real thing that gets me excited is the unlimited amount of time I get to  spend with my kid, my ability to travel whenever I want on my own terms, and, you know, being able  to max out my, you know, savings accounts and IAS and everything like that. And so, I just create a  safe life for my kids.

30:55 So, that's the goal. It's not to necessarily become the richest man in the  world. I don't have the Jeff Bezos bug, you know? Yeah. Yeah, once you hit this level, you kind of  just want easy. Whatever guru or marketer try to convince people that a lifestyle business is a  pjorative, a bad thing, a negative thing. I hate them because I've done both. I've raised money,  venture capital.

31:17 I've flown to Silicon Valley. I've like I've gone like the billion dollar exit  path and oh my gosh, like you are much more likely to fall on your face than you are to ever reach a  billion dollars or anywhere close to it. Whereas if you optimize for six figures a year or hundreds  like 2 3 4 $500,000 a year, you are more likely to get to 10 million a year or 5 million a year than  if you optimize for a billion and land at 10.

31:42 Like if you optimize for a billion, it's boom or bust  and it's probably bust. Optimize for 500,000, it's more likely to be boom. And you're able to take  that 500,000 and scale it if you want to while still having a great lifestyle. Like I spend hours  in the yard every day trimming my fruit trees, planting trees. Like I love spending time outside  with my kids, traveling.

32:05 We go on like five trips a year and this is a lifestyle business and it's  freaking awesome. Yeah, people should optimize for that. I don't think people realize that you don't  need a half a billion dollars to be financially free. You know, you don't even need $20 million to  be financially free. You just need enough money in your checking account that could keep you floating  for a year or two years to hit the fan.

32:29 You just need to be able to have enough money in your bank  account to be able to tell your employer to screw off if you didn't want to work there anymore.  Yeah. Cuz that's the real freedom. If you feel like you're trapped in a job and you can't leave  it, that's not freedom. If you have enough money in your bank account and you could walk away from  any job, then that's true freedom.

32:48 What does your tech stack look like? What tools could you not  live without to do with uh to do what you do? So, number one, you know, I started off building  sites on Weebi because I didn't know how to build websites and it's super easy, drag and drop.  But since I got partners who were a bit more savvy at things like WordPress, my costs went down and  we use WordPress and things move way faster.

33:08 The reason I don't encourage people to start with  WordPress if they don't already know it is because it takes a long time to learn it. So even  though Weebly is more expensive, it's better to get started on that. So first tech stack WordPress  or website building tool. Then you got Call Rail, which is the call tracking software. You could  use Call Rail, you could use Twilio.

33:29 There are a bunch of other providers out there, but that's  where I get the phone numbers from and how I could track all the phone numbers. And it also automates  emails to my client with a recording of the call and the phone number of the caller so they can  keep track of any call that comes from me and so that there's no question of whether it came from  me or not.

33:47 And then it also does something called a whisper message. So whenever my client picks up  the phone, the first thing they hear is a little robot voice recording that says call from Kyle's  leads. And boom, they're talking to the customer. So it's a all-in-one tool. Um, so Call Rail,  WordPress, and honestly an Excel sheet. I don't use any fancy uh CRM.

34:06 I only use Go High Level.  Some people do, but all I need is my client's name, business name, phone number, email, and  that's all I really need. And obviously, we have a Google sheet page for all of our sites and all the  domain names and everything, but there's no reason to get o to get overly complicated with it. Now  for researching what city, what niche to go after, are we talking ahrefs, semrush, or are there other  tools out there that you use?

34:31 So as a beginner, I would use ars because it's very detailed and  it it'll help you give get really good, accurate information to find backlinks, to do competition  research and niche research, etc. But today, these days, I use something called Mangles. It's  just a really clean, fun, easy interface. And I don't need extreme detail anymore because I have  a lot of intuition I've built up.

34:55 And so I'll use Mangles. It's really cool. They got a Chrome  plugin that's really easy. And that's just what I use now. But I would recommend anybody starting  out if you're learning this game to use AFS. Okay. What did your first like six months and 12 months  in revenue look like? How how long did it take you to get to 10 grand a month, 20 grand a month,  etc.?

35:17 I got to $10,000 a month at the end of my first year. I found this business model in August  of 2019 and then obviously pandemic hit March 2020 and everything shut down and so my TV work went  away and I was double down on this and give it my full attention during pandemic and you know I was  able to get to $10,000 a month on you know I would say 50 to 75% effort right just because I'm Yeah,  like I said before I'm not the crazy aggressive person.

35:46 So there are some people I know who got  to 30 or 40 grand a month by the end of their first year. I'm just not one of them. And then how  long until 20 30 100 grand a month where you're at now? We started averaging around 100 grand a  month in the company around year four but we were hovering around 50 to 70 for a while. We were  kind of cruising and plateauing for a bit and then we just got a second wind and built ourselves up  to 100 around you know year four or five.

36:08 Okay. How do you find clients? Or I guess you told me in  the very beginning you build you proactively build the sites for them based on what your Mangles AHF  show and then you go find junk removal companies in that whatever it is whatever site you built  you go find people to sell it to. Is that right? Yeah. I build a generic site that's all about the  niche and city generic site.

36:29 No branding. And then I just literally go to Google, Yelp, Yellow Pages  and make a list on a on an Excel sheet of all the businesses in town that offer that service. And  then I uh just start calling because it's such an easy phone call. Some people are too afraid  to make the phone call so they do text or email, but I just want to get it over with and I'm just  offering people a free trial.

36:50 It's a gift. The difficulty of your phone call is correlated with  the the strength of your offer or not, right? You're confident in what you're selling because  you're already generating leads for the person. Like you're calling them up and and saying, "I  have free money for you. Would you like that or not?" So, I hate cold calling. I'm an introvert.

37:10 But if I'm calling with that offer, I'm picking up the phone all day. No brainer. It's a no-brainer.  I have a script I've said over and over again that I've tweaked throughout the years, but it's not  What's the script? What's the 8020 of it? I mean, it's really just like I'm really sounding very  casual. It It's not I won't call them and say, "Hey, my name's Kyle from Superstar Leads LLC  and I want to know if I can speak with a business owner."

37:33 No, I'm not doing any of that. I'm calling  up and saying, "Hey, what's up, man?" I'm almost presenting it like I have a problem I need help  with from them. I go, "Hey man, I got this website that is getting like 50 calls a month for junk  removal services in Austin. I'm not a junk removal company. I don't know what to do with them. Do you  think I could send them to you for like a week and you could just see what they're like?

37:53 All I need  is a phone number and email to send them to and obviously there's some conversation there. They  ask some questions. I tell them I explain to them how they're going to receive the calls. And then  it's almost like, you know, they're almost like this is not going to work. This is going to  be nothing. this is some schmuck that's just, you know, calling me for some random reason.

38:10 And  it's really that casual. I almost want to present it like I need their help taking over these calls  because I can't handle them, right? And so just give them the calls for a week and then it does  the selling for me. I just have to almost trick them into accepting this beautiful gift because  they or else they or else sometimes they'll get in their own way and they'll just be like this is too  good to be true.

38:32 I can't take this. Right. Right. Right. Guys, tkowners.com. That's my community  where people are building businesses. I do AMAs, Q&As's every week live. You can ask me anything  you want. You can have accountability partners. It's about a thousand people in there building,  starting, growing businesses. Check out TKO as in the Kerner office. tkowners.com.

38:52 Do you have any  idea like what your close rate is with this pitch? If you actually get them on the phone, I would  say it takes me one to maybe three trials to get a locked in business owner. One to three. What's  your turn once you have them? Average client lasts for I mean it's really if somebody's going to  cancel they usually do it within the first six months but if they make it past six months  they're sticking around for maybe 5 years or more.

39:18 Wow. I have client I still have my first  client like I said so you know there it could be forever. Are you able to share a URL of a site so  we can see like what it looks like? Why don't you just go to Google and type in autoglass repair New  Orleans? Okay. You see the second site right below broadcast right here. There. Yeah, click that.  Okay, this is my basic site.

39:34 And what's be you, it's very basic and ugly, but I think it's  beautiful because you know what? It works. Google is just an algorithm. And it's like a baby and  you want to be abundantly clear to Google, this is what I do and this is where I do it. You don't  want them to struggle to figure that out. So, my website loads really fast, easy for Google's  little bot to read, and it clearly conveys that I am the expert on autoglass repair in New Orleans.

40:06 All right. Yeah. And so, it gets the job done. It communicates properly, and I just keep adding  content to it until it gets to page one. And there it is. And this site generates around 50 calls or  so a month for a company I've been working with for five years now. And he pays me around 600  bucks a month for the past five years. and have maybe talked to him five times.

40:26 Jeez. And like  you they get the the form leads for free as well, right? Yes, he gets the form leads as well. Yeah.  And also like I know this site's ugly and basic, but if you tell me if you're going to hire a  tow towing company or an autoglass company, do you care if their site is pretty or not? No.  My highest converting newsletter like paid ads site for my newsletter is this one right here.

40:50 No distractions. There can't I'm serious. I've AB tested it. It looks ridiculous. Like, put  your picture on there. Put a testimonial. No, that's that's a distraction. That's something  else for them to click. I don't want them to be distracted by anything. I don't need their number,  their name, anything. Just give me your email. That's fascinating.

41:09 That's awesome. Yeah. I mean,  when you're looking for these bluecollar services, you you you expect the sites to be you want  your tow truck guy to not really care about the internet his internet presence, you know? If if  my if if I have a contractor roll up to my house with a wrap truck, I'm saying, "Bro, turn around.  You're too expensive." Yeah, I'm serious.

41:25 What What niches do you target? And it does it matter?  Is there a better niche out there than others or does it mostly come down to supply and demand? It  mostly comes down to the level of competition. So, I mean, great niches. I I know somebody making  $50,000 a month strictly doing epoxy flooring leads, right? I know a guy doing $90,000 a month  and all he does is spray foam insulation leads, right?

41:59 So, there's a wide variety of niches and  you learn about those ones all the time. Like I just stumbled across one the other week, uh, crime  scene cleanup. You should look into that industry. It's actually something that you might find  interesting for your show. Oh, you have? Yeah, there's like I haven't done an episode on it,  but I I'm aware there's franchises for it.

42:14 Like it's a very profitable business. They make so  much money. It's dark business. I don't know if I'd want to generate leads for that, you know,  but it's an industry not a lot of people have thought about and you're going to come across  a lot of these types of industries as your eyes are opening to these different spaces, right?  Yeah. Now, this is a loaded question, but like what's the 8020 of how to get these to actually  rank?

42:39 Like let's say you look at these, you know, these research sites, lot of search traffic, very  low competition. Okay, cool. You buy the domain, city name in there, you build it. What What are  like the most important things you need to do to get it to actually rank for the client to get  leads? I'm going to preface this by saying that too many people follow the SEO blogs and the  big Google updates and stuff and get freaked out and take them too literally.

43:11 It's going to be  hard to believe and people are going to think I'm full of it, but I'm doing the same strategies I  was doing back in 2019 to get local sites ranked, right? And the 80% is content and backlinks. The  20% is maybe citations, heading structure and stuff like that, right? But the 80% is content  and backlinks and volume of content, quality of content and quality of backlinks and volume of  backlinks.

43:36 But people have to remember if they go onto Google and do their own research on SEO  and they think that my strategies are outdated, they have to remember I'm doing local low  competition SEO. All right? And I'm not competing against I'm not trying to rank for the keyword  weight loss where I'm competing against WGO and OMIC. I'm competing against the keyword junk  removal Austin Texas and the other sites there are run by Joe Bill and Steve.

44:06 Yeah. You just got to  show up. Yeah. Good best principles, back links, content. Sure, of course. But mostly just show  up. Yeah. Show up. Exactly. And if you're reading online about all this stuff like schema markup  and and the Google helpful quality content update, that mostly applies to the major sites that need  highlevel SEO. We're not doing any of that need to.

44:32 You know, I probably make more money than a  lot of the people trying to do with do that stuff, right? You don't have to go after the biggest  fish. You just have to make a bunch of salmon and trout. You're speaking my language. That's  a fish analogy. I love fish analogies. I'm going to show you a website here. I uh to your point, I  don't know anything about SEO.

44:45 I'm not technical. I I've heard about schema markups. I don't know  what it is. Don't worry about it. Um but I was doing research for pet cremation. Long story. And  I saw, holy crap, a lot of people are searching for pet and horse cremation and euthanasia and  no one is providing it. Wow. And so I bought the domain name. I spent 3,400 on this domain name,  which I don't recommend.

45:07 Animalare.com and I've done nothing with it. I set it up and this is my  traffic for the last two years. Wait, you've done nothing with it? Nothing. I've done nothing with  it. I'm not selling the leads. I'm not If anyone's listening to this or watching this and you have  a contact at like So Mars, the big candy company, they own a bunch of vet clinics.

45:30 If you have  anyone at Mars or anyone that has veterinary clinics, I will sell you these leads because  I'm getting calls and and like emails every single day and I'm I got too much going on. I  could sell that for you. Please do. Seriously, if you could If you're serious, shoot me an email  and then I'll No, I am serious. Like, it's sold for you. I'm I am serious.

45:51 I'm not just like this  isn't for the content. I It's been like on my back burner forever. But my point in showing you that  is that I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know about SEO, but I knew there was a supply and  demand imbalance. So, we built a website and it not only does it get leads every single day, but  it's growing every single How are you capturing leads just like through a form or you a form and  then they go to a Google voice number?

46:12 Okay. Yeah, we got to do something with those. That's a really  interesting niche. Yeah, I think it's a valuable site. A horse cremation costs $3,000. Wow. In the  state of Texas, there's two cremation facilities. Two Texas. So, that could be a problem because  they probably are already overwhelmed with leads and they might not be willing to pay for more  if there's only two, right?

46:36 So, that's two also. I Yeah, there's some value there to be. For  sure. For sure. Let's talk after about that. For sure. All right. So, doesn't matter the niche.  I think I got I ran through my questions. Kyle, sorry to rush us off, but where can we find you  and learn more about you and what you do? So, if you want to learn more about what I do, I  did set up a page with it's not going to grab your email or anything like that.

47:00 It's a whole  page with information on how this business model works in more detail. Rentlosites.com.  Again, it's rentlocits.com.locites.com. can explain to you the the the more details about  how this business model works with videos, but also if you up with me and learn more with little  tips and tricks, you could follow me on Tik Tok. I am the handle website landlord.

47:21 It's all one word,  website landlord. That's such a good name. So, that's such a good name. Rentlosites.com and  website landlord. Two ways to find me. All right. And you can DM me if you have questions  also. Thank you, Kyle. Thanks so much, Chris. And um yeah, be in touch. Listen, I need more people  like this to interview on my podcast. So, if you know of someone with a side hustle or a business  that's unique and cool and super profitable, email Molly M o ly at coofounders.com.

47:47 That's one  word, co-founders.com. Molly@ccoofounders.com. Tell her your story and we'll give you a hundred  bucks if we end up interviewing them. Please share with a friend, hit a like or a comment below,  and we'll see you next time on the Kerner